Sea mines

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
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Schorschl
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Schorschl » 21 Oct 2013 09:18

Hello Alex,

Your photo shows mine cases of German influence mines of the SMA-type. Such mines were laid by submarines of the type VII D or X B.

Greetings,
Schorschl

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photo-war
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Re: Sea mines

Post by photo-war » 21 Oct 2013 18:38

Schorschl many thanks for your help!

Best regards,
Alexander

Sturm78
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Oct 2013 21:52

Any idea about the images posted on 24-26 Sep ??

Sturm78

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Schorschl
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Schorschl » 23 Oct 2013 19:01

Hello Sturm78,

such a friendly invitation is hard to resist.

The first picture in your post from the 24th of September shows a British Mk III (or V). The other mines are imho EMC, because the cylindrical mid-section is clearly visible.

Your picture from the 26th of September shows an EMC-mine, but EMD is also possible.

Greetings,
Schorschl

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Re: Sea mines

Post by Sturm78 » 24 Oct 2013 21:59

Thank you very much for your answer, Schorschl. :)

Regards Sturm78

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Re: Sea mines

Post by Sturm78 » 12 Dec 2013 20:19

Hi all,

French HS4AR mine ???

Image from EBay
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Re: Sea mines

Post by SnakeDoc » 13 Dec 2013 10:43

Hi,
Sturm78 wrote:French HS4AR mine ???
That's right.
It seems like French mine Sautter-Harlé HS 4 AR, in Polish Navy known under designation: S.M. 5.

http://www.weu1918-1939.pl/minamorska-sm5/
http://www.dws-xip.pl/wojna/bron/polska/p56.html

--
Regards
Maciek

Sturm78
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Sturm78 » 20 Dec 2013 17:29

Thank you, Maciek

Regards Sturm78

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Natter
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Natter » 09 Jan 2014 21:21

IgorVB wrote:Somebody knows, what designate the letters VH in the name of the German mine of LMB III VH?
VH = Verzögerungshoerst (arming delay clock)


Below is a list of abbreviations related to german WW2 mines.

Mines:
BMx = Bombe Minen (aircraft-delivered - dropped, 'x' denotes type: 1000, A or C)
EMx = Einheits Minen ('x' denotes type: A, B or C)
FMx = Flackwasser Minen ('x' denotes type: A, B, C, D, E, F, R or S)
LMx = Luft Minen (aircraft-delivered - parachute, 'x' denotes type: A, B or F)
TMx = Torpedorohr Minen ('x' denotes type: A, B or C)
SMx = Schacht Minen ('x' denotes type: A)
UMx = Unterseeboot Minen ('x' denotes type: A, B or C)

Misc mine-fittings:
UES = Uhrwerkeinschalter (arming relay clock - hydrostatically operated)
ZK = Zahlkontakt (period delay mechanism)
VE = Versenkinrichtung (self-destruct mechanism - time delay etc)
VW = Verzögerungsuhrwerk (arming delay clock - in earlier magnetic mines)
VH = Verzögerungshoerst (arming delay clock - in earlier acoustic mines)
VR = Verzögerungsrelais (mechanism for delayed firing after mine being activated)
VK = Verzögerungskontakt (mechanism for arming mine after a short delay following the first activation)
AS = Aufschlagschalter (impact switch)
DK = Doppelkontakt (mechanism that fires mine after two successive changes in magnetic flux)
GE = Geheimhaltungs Einrichtung (device for prserving secrecy, ie anti tamper device)
ZE = Zeiteinrichtung (flooder or sterilizer - usually 80 day clock)
EW = Einrichtung Warnung (11-hour "testing" clock in certain magnetic mines)
HV = Hochstandverrichter (hydrostatic flooder if the mine rise above set depth)
KA = Kontaktauslöseeinrichtung ("tomback sheating" anti-sweep mechanism on mooring wire)
LIZ = Lichtzündgerät (light-operated (photo-electric) fuze)
Ob.Ent. = Oberflächenstands-Entschärfer (mechanism for sterilizing the mine if it drifts off/to the surface)

Sweep-obstructors:
Sp x = Sprengboje ('x' denotes type: A, B, C, 3, 3A etc)
RB = Reissboje
BRx = Bombe Reissboje ('x' denotes type: A or B)

Sturm78
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Sturm78 » 10 Jan 2014 12:10

Very interesting information, Natter. :)

Sturm78

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Schorschl
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Schorschl » 10 Jan 2014 15:35

Hello Natter,

You have a very interesting list put together. However still some abbreviations were missing and a few subtleties were not correct. I have tried to supplement or correct them.
But for the abbreviation VH I can't find anything. In particular, in the German language, a word like "hoerst" does not exist. Can you tell me where you have found this abbreviation?
Below is a list of abbreviations related to German WW2 mines.

Mines:
BMx = Bombenmine Typ x (aircraft-delivered - dropped, 'x' denotes type: 1000, A or C)
EMx = Einheitsmine Typ x ('x' denotes type: A, B, C, D, E, F, G or S)
FMx = Flachwassermine Typ x ('x' denotes type: A, B or C)
LMx = Luftmine Typ x (aircraft-delivered - parachute, 'x' denotes type: A, B or F)
TMx = Torpedorohrmine Typ x ('x' denotes type: A, B, or C)
SMx = Ankertau-Schachtmine ('x' denotes type: A)
UMx = U-Bootmine Typ x ('x' denotes type: A, B or C)
KMA = Küstenmine Typ A
RMx = reguläre Mine Typ x (‘x’ denotes type: A, B, C, D or H)
MTA = Mine mit Torpedoantrieb
OMA = Oberflächenmine Typ A

Misc mine-fittings:
A.E.n.A. = Auftriebsentschärfer neuer Art (see also E.E.)
A.S. = Aufschlagschalter (impact switch)
D.K. = Doppelkontakt (mechanism that fires mine after two successive changes in magnetic flux)
E.E. = Entschärfereinrichtung (secures mine, if tension at mooring cable isn’t existing anymore, see also Ob.Ent.)
E.W. = Einrichtung Warnung(?) (1 to 11-hour clock in certain magnetic mines, during setted time the changing of magnetic flux activates VE, after this time the explosion of the main charge)
G.E. = Geheimhaltungseinrichtung (device for preserving secrecy, ie anti tamper device)
H.V. = Hochstandvernichter (detector if the mine rise above set depth, in combination with VE the mine was sunk)
K.A. = Kontaktauslöseeinrichtung (anti-sweep mechanism on mooring cable, causes immediately the explosion of the main charge if any mechanical mine sweeping gear came in contact with the mooring cable)
K.E. = Kontakteinrichtung (causes detonation of the mine if no more tension is on the mooring cable)
LIZ (auch Li.S.) = Lichtzündgerät (or Lichtschutz) (light-operated (photo-electric) fuze)
Ob.Ent. = Oberflächenstands-Entschärfer (mechanism for sterilizing the mine if it drifts off/to the surface, see also E.E.)
Ob.Vern. = Oberflächenstandsvernichter (in combination with VE mechanism to sink the mine unobtrusively if it drifts off/to the surface)
R.L. = Reißleine (rip cord to enlarge the effective range of the mine through a 25 m rope, in which were braided some pieces of cork; rope is attached to Hertz horns and should get caught by screws or rudder)
S.E. = Schärfereinrichtung (armed mine, if tension at mooring cable no longer exists)
U.E.S. = Uhrwerkeinschalter (arming relay clock – activated by melting of a piece of salt in the water after throwing)
V.E. = Versenkeinrichtung (self-destruct mechanism, blasts leak in the mine case when triggered, so the mine is sinking unobtrusively – activated by Z.E., H.V. or Ob.Vern. etc.)
V.K. = Verzögerungskontakt (in magnetic and acoustic mines, adjustable from 3 to 30 seconds; protection against sweeping; the mine explodes only when the ignition condition still exists at the end of the delay time)
V.R. = Verzögerungsrelais (mechanism for delayed firing after mine being activated, see also V.K.)
V.W. = Verzögerungsuhrwerk (arming delay clock from 6 hours to 6 days - in earlier magnetic mines)
V.Z. = Verzögerungszünder (ignites the main charge with up to seven-second delay, even when the ignition condition is no longer present)
Z.E. = Zeiteinrichtung (trigger for flooder as VE or other operations - usually 80 day clock)
Z.K. = Zählkontakt (period delay mechanism)?

Sweep-obstructors:
Spr.B. x = Sprengboje x ('x' denotes type: A, B, C, D, 3, 3A etc)
R.B. = Reißboje
BRx = Bombe Reissboje ('x' denotes type: A or B)
EMR = Sperrschutzboje (sinker and case of an EMC; case with dummy fuzes, but without charge)
Regards,
Schorschl

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Natter
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Natter » 10 Jan 2014 17:53

Schorschl wrote:You have a very interesting list put together. However still some abbreviations were missing and a few subtleties were not correct. I have tried to supplement or correct them.
But for the abbreviation VH I can't find anything. In particular, in the German language, a word like "hoerst" does not exist. Can you tell me where you have found this abbreviation?
Thanks for the supplements - I missed some obvious ones there!

I started compiling the list due to not having the answer for the original post earlier in this topic (it's about 1,5 years ago I think), and it's based on a number of different sources (documents). I forgot all about it until I discovered the same question in another forum yesterday (I suspect by the same person), and then I found the list and posted it.

As for the words that don't exist: I suspect there might be speling-errors on either my account, or perhaps from an english/US source document (my german is also virtually useless...). "hoerst" should probably be "hörst" (ie listening). Verzögerung Hörst could probably (?) be translated or interpreted into a sort of "delay for listening", or activation delay (which is the intention described originally, and makes perfect sense for an acoustic mine imo - perhaps they used this to distinguish the mechansims from the similar one in the magnetic mines - ie "V.W.").


I can't say exactly where the specific info was found without starting over looking through it all again, but here is a list of some of my documents on the subject of WW2 mines (I think it's most likely to be found in there, but I have a lot more, including many norwegian manuals/directives):

UK documents
C.B. 4140 Controlled Mining Drill Book Part II (1941)
C.B. 4295 Contolled Mining Handbook (1941)
Technical History of Miscellaneous Underwater Weapons
Glossary of German Torpedo and Mining terms (1945)


US documents
Ordnance Pamphlet No. 1330 - Mine Disposal Handbook (1945)
Ordnance Pamphlet No. 1665 - British Explosive Ordnance (1946)
Ordnance Pamphlet No. 1673A - German Underwater Ordnance, Mines (1946) (partial)
Report of Seacoast Artillery Evaluation Board United States Forces - German Seacoast Defences European Theater, Volume 7 - Underwater Defenses (1945)


German documents
D.(Luft) 4300 Abwurfmunition Bomben, Muntions-Handbuch Teil 1, Minenbomben, Heft 1 SC50 (1942)
D.(Luft) 4300 Abwurfmunition Bomben, Muntions-Handbuch Teil 1, Minenbomben, Heft 2 SC250 (1942)
D.(Luft) 4300 Abwurfmunition Bomben, Muntions-Handbuch Teil 1, Minenbomben, Heft 3 SC500 (1942)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.11 - Atlas der Minenräumgeräte Teil I, Heft A (1945)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.11 - Atlas der Minenräumgeräte Teil I, Heft B (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.11 - Atlas der Minenräumgeräte Teil I, Heft C (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.11 - Atlas der Minenräumgeräte Teil II (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.11 - Atlas der Minenräumgeräte Teil III (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.12 - Atlas der Minenräumformationen (1945)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.13 - Übersicht über deutsche und fremde Ankertauminen und Sperrschutzmittel (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.14 - Sprenggerät-Übersicht (1947)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.15 - Gerätesolle der Minenräumgeräte (1946)
Deutsche Minenräumdienstvorschrift Nr.16 - Magnetischer Schutz der Minenräumfahrzeuge (1946)
M.Dv.Nr.13 Seekriegsanleitung - Teil II, Heft f, Minenabwehrtaktik (1937)
M.Dv.Nr.13 Seekriegsanleitung - Teil II, Heft g, Minentaktik (1943)
M.Dv.Nr.13 Seekriegsanleitung - Teil III, Heft c, Sperrwaffen (1940)
M.Dv.Nr.13 Seekriegsanleitung - Teil III, Heft c, Sperrwaffen Entprobungsentwurf (1940)
M.Dv.Nr.454 Anleitung zum Bergen und Entschärfen deutscher und fremder Sperrwaffen (1942)



NB NB NB!
If anybody has a complete issue of the "O.P. No. 1673A - German Underwater Ordnance, Mines", please send me a PM: I'd very much like to get a copy, and I'm sure I can offer something interesting in return!

PS: Same goes for the "O.P. No. 1673B - German Underwater Ordnance. Torpedoes"!

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LWD
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Re: Sea mines

Post by LWD » 13 Jan 2014 15:42

Is this copy complete?
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref ... -Mines.pdf
If not these two sites sell pdf copies for $5 but I don't know if they are complete or not.
http://www.abebooks.com/OP-1673A-German ... 8095244/bd
http://www.milspecmanuals.com/?page=sho ... t_id=11233

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Natter
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Re: Sea mines

Post by Natter » 13 Jan 2014 17:59

LWD wrote:Is this copy complete?
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref ... -Mines.pdf
If not these two sites sell pdf copies for $5 but I don't know if they are complete or not.
http://www.abebooks.com/OP-1673A-German ... 8095244/bd
http://www.milspecmanuals.com/?page=sho ... t_id=11233
Thank you for your effort, but these are all the 54-page version that floats around on the net (the full manual is almost 300 pages).

I have made the error of ordering some CD's from "MilSpecManuals" in the past: They put a couple of pdf's that you can find for free almost anywhere on a CD and sell them for $5. Not too expensive maybe, but if you buy more they add up the postage as if they intend to send them separately (which they don't). My advice: Stay away...

Anyway: I have now made contact with someone who have the complete manual, and he will hopefully have it scanned for me soon (I would still like to get in touch with anyone having german WW2 torpedo/mine-related documents for exchange though!) :-)

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Re: Sea mines

Post by Storyforu » 29 Jan 2014 19:25

Natter wrote:
LWD wrote: (I would still like to get in touch with anyone having german WW2 torpedo/mine-related documents for exchange though!)[/b] :-)
I don't have anything to add to this (other than my thanks for posting the abbreviations), but I've been editing the diary of a Kriegsmarine R-boat skipper and his narrative on mine-sweeping operations is illuminating.
Editing the wartime diary of Kriegsmarine Oberleutnant z.S. Max von Zatorski.
https://www.facebook.com/SeeklarDiaries

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