Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 10 Dec 2011 21:13

Hello everybody,
In last days, attempting some responses at my questions put to you,
I made a hand draw - basically a beatifull gun ,again my uglly draw.
Enjoy it.
Regards,
VladAlex.
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ludvig
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by ludvig » 11 Dec 2011 10:59

Hello Viadalex ,
Some comments :
a) Viadalex photo from 05 Dec 2011 :
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 ns in 10,5 cm M.P.L.C/32 g E Schützschield
b) Laarman photo from 05 Dec 2011 :
10,5 cm S.K.C /32 in 10,5 cm M.P.L.C/32 on T - 3 , notice the
Vollrohr and only + 50 elevation
c) Viadalex drawings from 06 Dec 2011:
Sorry , these drawings is to skektsy to see the diffencees of the
10,5 cm S.K.C / 32 system , need more detailed drawings or photos .
d) Viadalex , photo from 11 Dec :
10,5 cm S.K.C /32 U in Ubts L C/36

The gun barreles used in the 10,5 cm S.K.C/32 system :
10,5 cm S.K. C/32
10,5 cm S.K. C/32 L
10,5 cm S.K. C/32 n. L .
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. S.
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 U

10,5 cm S.K. C/32 und 10,5 cm Ubts. und Tbts . Flak L 45 ( n .R.)
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 und 10,5 cm S.K. L 45 ( n.R.)
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 und 10,5 cm Flak L /45 ( n. R.)
( n.R.) = nachgebotherte Rohre = converted old WW I gun barreles to take new
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 shells

Regards
ludvig

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 11 Dec 2011 19:16

Hello Ludwig,
Thank you again for the response that helped me very much.
Now let's put on paper some remarks at your response:
a)OK - no aditional question
b)OK - Vollrohr means a monobloc barell ( from a single piece ) ?
c)OK - I understand what you mean. For me ,of course personal, is a passion when I see pictures of a gun from different angles to try to make a sketch and resume if is possible in 3D views this type of gun. Of course this is not an easy work,
because generally the pictures are focused mainly on the mans , not on the gun that generally is in second plan, and in 80% the angle of focus lets the gun with serious distorsion that destroy proportion of the original gun and make my work harder.
And , finally if I found a better drawings I will post in the shortest time , for all the fans on this forum. Now I have not these drawings, perhaps is difficult to have it ( confidential projects similar to MG42 wich is in use and today ?? ).
d)OK - what maximum elevation have this U-boot gun ?
For the barrels names ( index ?, I don't know what name to attach ) thank you again .
About the multitude shapes and structures of "Schutzschild" I will start soon another discussion on the forum.
I estimate to "resolve" this "Schutzschild"- problems some years ( 3 or 4 ).
Best Regards,
VladAlex.

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Schorschl
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by Schorschl » 11 Dec 2011 21:23

vladalex wrote:d)OK - what maximum elevation have this U-boot gun?
...-10° to +30°.

Greetings
Schorschl

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 12 Dec 2011 16:55

Thank you very much Schorschl,
Best Regards,
VladAlex.

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 03 Jan 2012 20:20

Hello everybody ,
New Years , new questions .
Because of the diversity of 10,5cm SK gun type's I will start with 2 type of barell of 10,5 cm SK guns :

- First ( dwg. 1, 2, 3 ) barell , wich have recoil buffer above the barell and the two damper cylinders under the barell .
I don't know in this case what's the specific denomination of the naval gun for this three drawings ( same turetts, same
marine lafette, same barell - but at #2 appear loading mechanism with motor and at #3 appear in addition a visible fuse-setter at an angle of 45 degree reported to the turett lateral-wall .

#1 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.S.on 10,5 cm MPL C/32 g.E. ?
#2 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.L. on 10,5 cm MPL C/32 g.E. ... ?
#3 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.L. on 10,5 cm MPL C/32 g.E. ... ? ( specification about fuse-setter ? )

- Second (dwg. 4 to 8 ) barell , wich have all the cylinders ( one for recoil and two for damping ) above the barell .
In this case the turetts for #4 and #5 is the same with #1, #2, #3 and the turetts for #6, #7and #8 look like an very un-elaborate type . ( Is possible that lafette to be 8,8 cm MPL ? )

#4 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.S. on 10,5 cm MPL C/32 g.E. ?
#5 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.S. on 10,5 cm MPL C/32 g.E. ... ? ( specification about fuse-setter ? )
#6 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.S. on 8,8 cm MPL C/30 g.E. ?
#7 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.L. on 8,8 cm MPL C/30 g.E. .... ?
#8 = 10,5 cm SK C/32 n.L. on 8,8 cm MPL C/30 g.E. .... ? ( specification about fuse-setter ? )

Best Regards,
VladAlex.
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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 09 Jan 2012 14:00

Hello for all,
Tell me please :
1. what use have the devices from the pictures ?
2. can anyone post a picture or send a link with a 10,5 cm SKC/32n.S.
and one with 10,5 cm SKC/32n.L. to see the difference ?

Best Regards,
VladAlex.
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ludvig
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by ludvig » 10 Jan 2012 16:12

Hello Vladalex ,
Back to your post dated 03 Jan 2012 20:20
To many combinations - -
The 10,5 cm S.K.C/32 system have 8 x different gun barrels , but only
5 x mounts / carriages :
1) 10,5 cm M.P.L. C/32 with - 10 + 50 elevation
3 x cylinders above the gun barrel
four sided shield house open at back

2) 10,5 cm M.P.L.C/ 32 g. E. with - 10 + 70 elevation
one cylinder above the gun barrel + two under
four sided shield house open at back or only front armour

3) 8,8 cm M.P.L. C / 30 with - 9 + 80 ( 79 ) elevation
3 x cylinders above the gun barrel
- open mount
- four sided gun shield house open at back
- Schildkrörten - shield , fully enclosed shield cover the whole gun pit

4) Ubts LC / 32 with - 10 +35 elevation
3x cylinders under gun barrel
open mount

5) Ubts LC /32 with - 10 + 30 elevation
3 x cylinders under the gun barrel
open mount , but could have four sided shield house open at back

regards
ludvig

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 10 Jan 2012 21:01

Hello Ludvig,
Many thanks for your profesionall and documented response. I examined with great attention the response
and I found ... nine mounts/carriages that you send to me. This are :

1. 10,5cm M.P.L. C/32 ; -10 to +50 grd ; 4SS+OB (four side shield + open at back)
2. 10,5cm M.P.L. C/32 g.E. ; -10 to +70 grd ; 4SS+OB
3. 10,5cm M.P.L. C/32 ; -10 to +70 grd ; Shield only on front armour.
4. 8,8cm M.P.L. C/30 ; -9 to +79 grd ; OM (open mount)
5. 8,8cm M.P.L. C/30D ; -9 to +79 grd ; 4SS+OB
6. 8,8cm M.P.L. C/30D ; -9 to +79 grd ; Fully enclosed shield cover the whole gun pit
7. 10,5cm Ubts.L. C/32 ; -10 to + 35 grd ; OM
8. 10,5cm Ubts.L. C/32 ; -10 to + 30 grd ; OM
9. 10,5cm Ubts.L. C/32 ; -10 to + 30 grd ; 4SS+OB

That's a very good point to start to organize the complex structure of the 10,5cm SK C/32 system.
If you have some extra-time , please post on forum these 8 different kind of
barrels you talk about in last response , in order to have "material" to work at the 10,5cm SK C/32 puzzle.
Best Regards,
VladAlex.

jopaerya
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jan 2012 19:28

Hello Vladalex

The frame above the 10.5 cm S.K.C/32 gun is to bolted it to the "Deckenschutz"
( steel cover ) to protect the personel of the M.Fl.B. from scrapnel .Photo's Ebay

Regards Jos
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jan 2012 19:34

Please see this picture from BaMa
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ludvig
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by ludvig » 12 Jan 2012 13:36

Hello Vladalex ,
Back to your posting 09 jan 2012 14.00
Question no 2 on 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 n . L versus 10,5 cm S.k. C/32 n. S
From a distance :
a) gun shield
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. L. in 8,8 cm M.P.L. C/30 ( open mount )
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. L. in 8,8 cm M.P.L.C/ 30 D ( Deckenschutzschild )

10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n.S in 10,5 cm M.P.L. C/32 g. E Schutzwand
only front armour with 4 x square Viserklappen open outwards
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. S in 10,5 cm M.P.l. C/32 g. E. Schutzschild
four sided gun shield with 2 x square Viserklappen open inwards
towards the gun barrel and the 2 x Viserklappen open downwards

b) recoil system
10, cm S.K.C/32 n. L have two long spring recuperators and short recoil brake
over the gun barrel but the 10,5 cm S.K.C/ 32 n. S. only the recoil brake over
gun barrel .

c) breech close up
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. L . : sharp edges + two verical notches under the shell recess
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. S. four rounded edges + two small bolt heads at the lower part of
breech , looks like 2 x small " eyes " .

regards
ludvig

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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 12 Jan 2012 14:59

Hello Jos ,
Thank for your response and beatifulls posts .
Is a big help for me for study the "32 system", that in my opinion is a revolutionary system .( and I affirm this after a
very carefull study of american and english AA system )
I post some minor remarks on your pictures.
Thank you again and Best Regards,
VladAlex.
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vladalex
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by vladalex » 12 Jan 2012 20:26

ludvig wrote: b) recoil system
10, cm S.K.C/32 n. L have two long spring recuperators and short recoil brake
over the gun barrel but the 10,5 cm S.K.C/ 32 n. S. only the recoil brake over
gun barrel .
c) breech close up
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. L . : sharp edges + two verical notches under the shell recess
10,5 cm S.K.C/32 n. S. four rounded edges + two small bolt heads at the lower part of
breech , looks like 2 x small " eyes " .
Thank you ludvig again for your very usefull response .
Let's put now some words about this problem .

What I understand about n.L. n.L. = neuer Ladevorrichtung
Vertical sliding breech has the primary role of closing the breech , firing the shell and extraction of the shell-tube “used” from the barrel. The n.L. system allow the loading of the projectile at any angle of the gun-barrel, “put” the shells inside the barrel by means of a pair of rubber-rolls rotated by an electric motor. In this way are increasing the firing cadence of the entire system of up to 18 to 20 rounds per minute , in spite of the gun manual loading . ( Compare this firing cadence obtained in 1940 with the new 127mm gun wich equip Arleigh Burke Class DDG and have automatically loading and a maximum cadence of 16 round per minute )
What I understand about n.S. n.S. = neuer Selbstspanneder
A barrel made from 3 pieces : so said main barrel wich glide in another barrel and stand in his bassically possition by the way of an recoil cylinder and two buffer cylinders with springs. Inside of the main barrel is screwed another special barrel from special alloyed-steel wich defines gun calibers , wich can be removed out, when gun fired the number envisioned by calculation of shells. At the extremity is screwed in the main barrel the sliding breech block. ( Draw #1 )
At this point is possible to have ( and we know now that we have ) an 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 n.S. barrel, equiped with the “box” above the barrel , that in realitty represent base of n.L. system . That was the “power-motor” that made me to post “the gun with box above barrel” on the site, because the problem for me was : what characteristic of the gun is more important to define it ? the formation of the barrel or the cadence of the gun ? In the example I talk about , the gun can be titled as : 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 n.S.n.L.( Draw #2 )
Best Regards,
VladAlex.
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jopaerya
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Re: Id. help on 10,5 cm S.K.C/32

Post by jopaerya » 14 Jan 2012 13:22

Hello

Around the concrete emplacement several damper cylinders were fitted to stabilize the shield when the
gun was fired , I could not find any information on the use of the upper dampers as on your note's .

The first two picture are M.Fl. at IJmuiden and the last one at Vlissingen ( wooden shoes )

Regards Jos

P.S. the 10.5 cm S.K.C/32U is a strange one in the /32 family
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