Reichsmarine Umbauplan 1932

[Paul Lakowski]

Primary role of the RM/KM in the 1920s & 1930s was coastal defence, followed by commerce warfare with either the Poles French &/or the Brits. As a result, there was only requirements for extremely long range surface raiders and U-Boats or short range coastal warships. Medium range Zerstroers were simply not a requirement. Naval plan 1932 reflected this planning for 6 more pocket battleships ; one aircraft carrier + 6 light cruisers and dozens of short range Gross Torpedo Boot. The light cruisers were only authorised after small diesels were clipped onto the shafts [plus small fuel bunkers], in order to gain a long range ocean cruise capability. Had that improvisation not worked ; it is likely more PBS could have been ordered in place.

To that end mod-ing the remaining K & L class cruisers made eminent sense -especially since each conversion cost about the same as a new Mine Boot 1935. While they could not fill the commerce raiding role across the Atlantic, they could operate out to the GIUK gap and assist in surface raider break out missions.

The Hipper/Seydlitz class were poor choice except the problems with the fuel endurance of the new high tech systems were not known until all ships had been laid down & launched.

[kfbr392]

Naval plan 1932 reflected this planning for 6 more pocket battleships ; one aircraft carrier + 6 light cruisers and dozens of short range Gross Torpedo Boot.

You pointed this out in other threads at AHF and I find it a fascinating what if.
Do you have a copy of "naval plan 1932" you can share?

[Paul Lakowski]

wish I did. the best I could manage was a French article that had more data on the plan....but that was a hard drive ago.

[kfbr392]

here is something:

[...] sah der am 15.11.1932 von Schleicher genehmigte "Umbauplan" folgende Stärke vor: 6 Panzerschiffe, 1 Flugzeugträger, 6 leichte Kreuzer, 6 Zerstörer- bzw. Torpedoboothalbflottillen, 3 Minensuchhalbflottillen, 3 Schnellboothalbflottillen sowie 16 U-Boote [...] vor.

this is from a forum post at http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 82843.html and that poster references the Book "Harald Fock, Z-Vor, Bd.1, Seite 86" as his source.

translation to English:

the "Umbauplan", which was approved by Schleicher on 15.11.1932, envisioned the following strength:
6 Panzerschiffe
1 aircraft carrier
6 light cruisers
6 destroyer or torpedo boat half-flotillas
3 Minensuch half-flotillas
3 S-Boot half-flotillas
16 submarines

[kfbr392]

Paul, reading the German wording (and being a German native speaker) in that above post at Marinearchiv forum, the Reichsmarine Umbauplan 1932 did not seek "6 more pocket battleships" - it did envision a total of 6 pocket battleships as an end state (presumably in the late 1930s).
So the 6 would include the 3 Deutschland-class ships...

To have perfect clarity on this we need to get additional and better sources.

[Paul Lakowski]

No problem, I will keep looking, but Raeder refers to building Panzerschiffe D/E/F/G/H & J, that were inherited from this plan. The discussion I dissected reported that at this time [1932-34] the orders ranged from 6 Panzerschiffe including the 3 PBS - right up to building 8 new Panzerschiffe in the 22-25kt region.

feel free to correct my translation since its google......

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 08.15.html


http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... topic=5708
geschickt, bei gründlicherem Studium des Buches sehe ich folgende Planungsphasen:
1932: 15-18.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung wie A-C (Raeder-Plan)

1933:
D-33/I: 18.000t standard, 28cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
D-33/II: 22.000t standard, 6*33cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
D-33/III: 26.000t standard, 33cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
Daraus wurden:
D-33/IIIa: 26.000t standard, 4*2 33cm
D-33/IIIb: 26.000t standard, 2*4 33cm
D-33/IIIc, 26.000t standard, 3*3 33cm
Dazu
D-33/IV: 22.000t standard, 28cm (=Projekt XIII)
Daraus wurde D-34: (17->18->)19.000t standard, 2*3 28cm (= die Schiffe, die hier rekonstruiert wurden)

1934:
D-34/I: ?t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 300-350mm (=Marinekommandoamt-Plan)
D-34/II: 26-31.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm (=Neuentwurf I)
D-34/III: 26-31.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350+mm (Neuentwurf II)
Aus Neuentwurf I wurde dann D-35: ca. 31.500t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm

1935:
D-35/I: 34-37.000t standard, 3*3 30,5cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/II: 34-37.000t standard, 3*3 33cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/III: 34-37.000t standard, 3*2 38cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/IV: ca. 32.000t standard, 3*2 33cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/V: ca. 32.000t standard, 3*2 35cm, Panzerung 350mm
Aus letzterem wurde D-35/VI: 31.500t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm, Option für spatere Umbewaffnung auf 3*2 35cm (= Scharnhorst und Gneisenau)


mfg
Click to expand...
Then the plan either 6 x 26kt Pzsch or 8 x 22kt Pzsch. 156-176 [with carrier and 6 Kreuzers = 239-236kt]

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 08.15.html

on Mariner armory "D" and "E":

January 1932 On the basis of the Guidelines for the Geneva Conference on Disarmament, the tonnage is to be replenished next to "A" and "B", possibly with up to six new buildings of 26,000 tons. At the task of the two armored ships: 6 times 29,000 tons or 8 times 22,000 tons (goal: parity to France). Raeder and Brüning agreed to build A and B, and C if the line shipbuilding was not set up worldwide.


9.6.1932 Freyberg's proposal for a wheel: the two armored ships, four new builds of 25,000 tons.


16.8.1932 On account of the ongoing negotiations, Raeder decides to build "C" immediately: "to place a metal plate which can be dismantled at any time".
End of 1932 "Umbauplan" under government Schleicher, 6 armored ships (approval 7.11.
1932) 10.1.1933 Raeder has revised the design of the rebuilding plan for "D". Objective: equivalent to Dunkerque. Tonnage and caliber are questioned.


9.3.1933 Raeder calls for the reconstruction of "D" 26,500 tons. And 33cm caliber.


24.3.1933 after Lecture Gross at Raeder on the MacDonald Plan: a 26,000 to-ship is to be requested internationally, in order not to be worse off the plan than under the Versailles Treaty. Blomberg considers the demand for a heavy burden on the relationship with England.


28.3./1.4.1933 Lecture by Raeders with Hitler, 4th Panzerschiff before 1936 build: "bigger plan" than the previous 10,000 tons. Plans to prepare until

1.4.1934, ship must have grown the Dunkerque.
April 1933: For disarmament conference: German requirement for further armored vessel without size indication, caliber restrictions to 33 or 28 cm are not included in the applications. Hitler accepted the demand for "26,000 tons."
By April 1933: the naval budget was increased by RM 155.7 million for RM 1933, originally RM 186 million, to RM 312 million.
June 1933: Raeder arrangement for the construction of an armored ship with caliber and speed as Germany class, but 18,000 tons, on pile 1.4.1934 (presumably objections of Hitler against a large ship), in the autumn of 1933 also another Panzerschiff of the old type in Order. In all cases (finished fleet expansion) final and short-term designs should be drawn up.


October 1933: In the blueprints 5. Panzership "E", construction at the same time as "D" from 1.4.1934 (building permission of Hitler is to be assumed).


October 1933: instead of the required 187 million, only 133 million RM for new buildings were put into the household in 1934 (money shortage), deletions were corrected again later.


December 1933: "E" is included in Marine Household 1934, planning for "F" is returned.


5.12.1933 In conversation with Phipps, Hitler mentions the new construction of the navy in the scope of the VV.


25.1. And 14.2.1934: "D" and "E" are assigned with 18.000 to (plan) and 6 * 28cm. The reason: the upcoming Seemächte conference, the presumed support of Italy, the conclusion of the non-aggression pact with Poland.
Beginning 1934: Considerations for Panzerschiff "F", on pile 1935. Guideline: 25,000 to. And 30.5 cm.


6.2.1934: Shipbuilding plan is to be rebuilt completely according to arrangement Raeder, scale: parity with France, without Versailles limits.
28.2.1934 ( ) final decision for the "E".


19.3.1934 "target plan" after discussion at Raeder with 8 armored ships (instead of 6), the 8th to 1938 under construction, finished at the latest 1941, "F / G / H" with 25.000 to and 30.5cm.


1.4.1934 Stacking D and E, with F, if necessary, is waited beyond the 1.10.1935 due to the plan revisions in order to wait for the basic conditions. 18,000 to.


April 1934: Discussions Reichsmarine / Royal Navy.


16.6.1934: Note on naval armament talks with UK: Germany calls for 8 ships with 35,000 tons, the "5 armored ships" (3 * 10,000 to and 2 * 18,000 tons. ) Should be considered non-competitive.


27.6.1934: Note to Raeder or Hitler, point 8: Development fleet possibly later against England, types ta. Tradition, I: from 1936 to large ships with 35 cm, If money, yes. (1899), position 1914. ... Probably permission from Hitler to pass on 9 * 28 cm at "D" and "E", since the two would otherwise be unimportant against French ships.


5.7.1934: Sets the work on "D" and "E" (old). Marine demands 33cm guns for 1935 when caliber restrictions are lifted. Overloading by planning work on cruiser A and battleship F as well as other plans.


23.7.1934 Raeder orders "D" and "E" with 30.400 (28.000) to and 9 * 28cm, since the caliber of 33cm would delay the start of construction.
March 1935: Hitler interfered with the caliber question "D" and "E", ordered immediately before the start of the construction test on higher caliber. Possibly. Completion, then a year retrofit to 35cm (later 38cm).


http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 08.15.html
Click to expand...
last plan 8 x 35,000t Panzerschiffe or 280kt parity with France. None in the 35% region because they had already changed the plan to 50% of UK.
geschickt, bei gründlicherem Studium des Buches sehe ich folgende Planungsphasen:
1932: 15-18.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung wie A-C (Raeder-Plan)

1933:
D-33/I: 18.000t standard, 28cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
D-33/II: 22.000t standard, 6*33cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
D-33/III: 26.000t standard, 33cm, Panzerung mindestens 220mm
Daraus wurden:
D-33/IIIa: 26.000t standard, 4*2 33cm
D-33/IIIb: 26.000t standard, 2*4 33cm
D-33/IIIc, 26.000t standard, 3*3 33cm
Dazu
D-33/IV: 22.000t standard, 28cm (=Projekt XIII)
Daraus wurde D-34: (17->18->)19.000t standard, 2*3 28cm (= die Schiffe, die hier rekonstruiert wurden)

1934:
D-34/I: ?t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 300-350mm (=Marinekommandoamt-Plan)
D-34/II: 26-31.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm (=Neuentwurf I)
D-34/III: 26-31.000t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350+mm (Neuentwurf II)
Aus Neuentwurf I wurde dann D-35: ca. 31.500t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm

1935:
D-35/I: 34-37.000t standard, 3*3 30,5cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/II: 34-37.000t standard, 3*3 33cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/III: 34-37.000t standard, 3*2 38cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/IV: ca. 32.000t standard, 3*2 33cm, Panzerung 350mm
D-35/V: ca. 32.000t standard, 3*2 35cm, Panzerung 350mm
Aus letzterem wurde D-35/VI: 31.500t standard, 3*3 28cm, Panzerung 350mm, Option für spatere Umbewaffnung auf 3*2 35cm (= Scharnhorst und Gneisenau)

[Paul Lakowski]

F. E Brezet article “History of the German navy (1939-1945) 1. Of Reichsmarine in Kriegsmarine, the rebuilding of the German navy

http://www.stratisc.org/pub_brezet_Km1.html
Here is a crude translation

"In November 1932, Raeder was signed by the Schleicher government reconstruction plan in three stages, which provided significant staff increases, a prerequisite for future arms units, the commissioning of six battleships (or Panzerschiff) , an aircraft carrier, 6 cruisers, 6 half-fleet destroyers and torpedo boats, 3 half-fleet minesweepers, 3 half-fleet torpedo boats. But what manifested especially the break with the Treaty of Versailles was the creation of a naval aviation, Marineluftwaffe consisting of 9 courses and 3 half-fleet of submarines (16 U-boats). For the latter, the navy was PERMITTED to prepare the construction, Schleicher still reserving the moment of decision

."

[kfbr392]

Another post from Marinearchiv forum ( http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 2.270.html ):

Der Umbauplan der Reichsmarine vom 15. November 1932:

I. Indiensthaltung von:
6 Linien- bzw. Panzerschiffen
1 Flugzeugträger
6 Kreuzer
6 Zerstörer- bzw. T-Bootshalbflottillen ****
3 Minensuchhalbflottillen
3 Schnellbootshalbflottillen
3 U-Halbflottillen (16 Unterseeboote)
1 Segelschulschiffe
1 Sperrverband
mit den erforderlichen Tendern, Versuchsschiffen und -Booten, Artillerieschulbooten und Hilfsschiffen.
Für die Typenentwicklung werden die Beschlüsse der Abrüstungskonferenz von einschneidender bedeutung sein.

II. Schaffung einer Marineluftwaffe mit den dazugehörigen Formationen. Bildung von 9 Marinefliegerstaffeln, U. G.

III. Schaffung einer U-Bootwaffe mit den dazugehörigen Formationen. [...]


****) Laut Rangliste 1930 bestand eine Torpedobootsflottille aus einem Führerboot und zwei Halbflottillen, jede mit meist vier, manchmal mit fünf Booten. Jedoch war nur eine der beiden Halbflottillen einer Flottille eine soganannte Manöverflottille, die andere nur eine Ausbildungsflottille.

Translation to English:

The Reichsmarine Restructuring Plan of 15 November 1932:

I. [Putting into service and] keeping in [active] service the following [units]:
6 pre-dreadnought battleships and/or Panzerschiffe
1 aircraft carrier
6 cruisers
6 half-flotillas **** of destroyers and/or torpedo boats
3 half-flotillas of mine countermeasure boats
3 half-flotillas of fast motor torpedo boats
3 half-flotillas of submarines (16 submarines)
1 sail training ship
1 mine laying formation
with the necessary tenders, trial ships and boats, artillery training ships and auxiliary ships.
The Decisions of the Conference on Disarmament will be of crucial importance for the development of types.

II. Creation of a Marineluftwaffe with the associated formations. Formation of 9 naval air squadrons.

III. Creation of a submarine arm with the appropriate formations. [...]


****) According to [Reichsmarine] Rangliste 1930 [document], a torpedo boat flotilla consisted of a squadron leader boat and two half-flotillas, each with generally four, sometimes five boats. However, only one of the two half-flotillas of a flotilla was a battle flotilla, the other [being] only a training flotilla.

[Polar bear]

feel free to correct my translation since its google......

9.6.1932 Freyberg's proposal for a wheel: the two armored ships, four new builds of 25,000 tons.

not "a wheel", but (admiral) Raeder .. that's a real goodie


October 1933: instead of the required 187 million, only 133 million RM for new buildings were put into the household in 1934 (money shortage), deletions were corrected again later. December 1933: "E" is included in Marine Household 1934, planning for "F" is returned.

not "Marine Household" but "naval budget"

greetings, the pb

[Polar bear]

Here is a crude translation

"In November 1932, Raeder was signed by the Schleicher government reconstruction plan in three stages, which provided significant staff increases, a prerequisite for future arms units, the commissioning of six battleships (or Panzerschiff) , an aircraft carrier, 6 cruisers, 6 half-fleet destroyers and torpedo boats, 3 half-fleet minesweepers, 3 half-fleet torpedo boats. But what manifested especially the break with the Treaty of Versailles was the creation of a naval aviation, Marineluftwaffe consisting of 9 courses and 3 half-fleet of submarines (16 U-boats). For the latter, the navy was PERMITTED to prepare the construction, Schleicher still reserving the moment of decision

a tiny little bit improved :
"In November 1932, Raeder was signed by the Schleicher government reconstruction plan in three stages, which provided significant staff increases, a prerequisite for future arms units, the commissioning of six battleships (or Panzerschiff) , an aircraft carrier, 6 cruisers, 6 half-flotillas of destroyers and torpedo boats, 3 half-flotillas of minesweepers, 3 half-flotillas of motor torpedo boats. But what manifested especially the break with the Treaty of Versailles was the creation of a naval aviation, Marineluftwaffe consisting of 9 squadrons and 3 half-flotillas of submarines (16 U-boats). For the latter, the navy was PERMITTED to prepare the construction, Schleicher still reserving the moment of decision

greetings, the pb

[Paul Lakowski]

THANKS GUYS.

[thaddeus_c]

is this outlining 6 light cruisers or six MORE light cruisers? assuming 6 total and the 6th being (historically) Nurnberg?

I don't know if there was a good building plan for the KM, Paul can lay out pretty good case against ARMOR wasted on the 4 large battleships of historical fleet. and I can envision 2 -3 dozen rail guns being more productive (for a time at least)

[kfbr392]

it was a very modest plan.
it called for maintaining the 1931 numbers of pre-dreadnoughts and/or Panzerschiffe (6) and cruisers (also 6). no increases there! just 1-for-1 replacements of 20 year old ships (pre-dreadnought Linienschiffe & Kleine Kreuzer) with new designs (Panzerschiffe & CLs).

the establishment of the (modest) naval air and submarine arms was what was novel, along with the (experimental?) carrier.
clearly a plan dictated by limited funds.

[Paul Lakowski]

The French article reported 400 aircraft for navy, but perhaps that was over the next years. Yes it was a conservative plan reflecting the difficult financial times with the original completion dates being bumped to 1941. But as finances improved through the 1930s ; more ship yards could be employed to accelerate the above plan to the 1938 date and supplement it with more warships for Hitler's Fleet.....