Depth charges

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
Post Reply
AginAf
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 09 Mar 2016, 02:57
Location: Chester, MD 21619

Depth charges

#1

Post by AginAf » 27 Jul 2018, 23:20

Who sank RN's champion submarine HMS UPHOLDER? Italian or German destroyers?

AginAf
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 09 Mar 2016, 02:57
Location: Chester, MD 21619

Re: Depth charges

#2

Post by AginAf » 27 Jul 2018, 23:23

What type of sonar/asdic did German Navy use? Was it an active sonar with ping?

Italian Navy?


Dili
Member
Posts: 2201
Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 23:54
Location: Lusitania

Re: Depth charges

#3

Post by Dili » 31 Jul 2018, 01:18

It is possible she was sunk by Italian escort destroyer Pegaso but this isn't certain. There was only 1 German destroyer in Med ex.Greek - until they could get the hands on some Italian ones.

Yes both employed active sonars, some of the Italian ships had Germans models. There were a small number of Italian ships with active sonar at war start but it appears was more or less experimental. Almost all ships had passive sonar, even MAS which was a sort of tube put at sea and a crew member to listen. Looked like a big stethoscope.

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4896
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 10:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Depth charges

#4

Post by Urmel » 01 Aug 2018, 23:52

Some Italian vessels were equipped with German active sonar:

https://rommelsriposte.com/2009/07/15/g ... n-vessels/

https://rommelsriposte.com/2015/12/06/u ... sels-pt-2/

In particular, if Pegaso had been re-equipped by the stated date, she would have carried German active sonar and depth charges on the date that HM/Sub Upholder was sunk:

https://rommelsriposte.com/2015/12/07/g ... sels-pt-3/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Thoddy
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 18 Jun 2017, 12:37
Location: Germany

Re: Depth charges

#5

Post by Thoddy » 02 Aug 2018, 11:19

AginAf wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 23:23
What type of sonar/asdic did German Navy use? Was it an active sonar with ping?
Germany had active (S-Gerät) and passive (GHG)hydroaccoustics devices.
Detection range for passive devices >30km under optimal conditions against fast ships even at high own velocities (25 kn).
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15326
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 21:51
Location: UK and USA

Re: Depth charges

#6

Post by Andy H » 05 Aug 2018, 22:55

Hi

There's a third possibility-a mine!

Until the wreck is found and surveyed then I think only then will we be able to get a better idea of what caused its fate.

Regards

Andy H

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4896
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 10:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Depth charges

#7

Post by Urmel » 06 Aug 2018, 02:50

TBH, the mine theory just sounds like British naval officers unable to admit that Wanklyn could possibly have been lost to enemy action.

http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/ ... th-africa/

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... holder.htm

https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?16261
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15326
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 21:51
Location: UK and USA

Re: Depth charges

#8

Post by Andy H » 06 Aug 2018, 23:53

Urmel wrote:
06 Aug 2018, 02:50
TBH, the mine theory just sounds like British naval officers unable to admit that Wanklyn could possibly have been lost to enemy action.

http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/ ... th-africa/

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... holder.htm

https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?16261
Hi Urmel

I wouldn't disagree that that could be the case during the war, but there's nothing concrete thats 'surfaced' since the wars end to suggest categorically that it didn't either. Like with the Bismarck, how/why/who sank it is a small byline in the history books.

Regards

Andy H

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4896
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 10:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Depth charges

#9

Post by Urmel » 07 Aug 2018, 06:10

Well I believe it's philosphically impossible to prove that a mine strike didn't happen. You could equally argue that aliens from Planet Z abducted Upholder and her crew to benefit from Wanklyn's undoubted combat prowess. There's nothing that has surfaced to suggest categorically that that didn't happen either.

More to the point though, has that radio message one of the commanders who came up with the idea of a mine strike ever been produced?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Post Reply

Return to “Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general”