Base/port security units?

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koczownik
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Base/port security units?

#1

Post by koczownik » 20 Jan 2019, 12:37

Can anyone explain to me what sort of units the Kriegsmarine personnel who were tasked with guarding naval bases/ports would have been drawn from? I've heard that the Kriegsmarine had its own naval infantry units, but I was under the impression these were intended for landing assaults or frontline combat (sort of like the SNLF in Japan). Would naval base/port guards have been drawn from these infantry units? From detachments of regular sailors assigned to shore duty? Or from some other units altogether?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Base/port security units?

#2

Post by Sid Guttridge » 20 Jan 2019, 14:58

Hi koczownik,

Nazi Germany failed to develop a marine unit as understood in more maritime countries. This put them at a disadvantage when trying to seize the French fleet in 1942 and the Italian and Danish fleets in 1943.

If I recall correctly, coastal artillery units had responsibility for harbour defence.

Sid


koczownik
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Re: Base/port security units?

#3

Post by koczownik » 20 Jan 2019, 15:05

Hello Sid. I think you're right in that they didn't have a dedicated branch comparable to, say, the US Marine Corps. But I'm still pretty sure I've heard of Kriegsmarine Infantry units before. I believe one was involved in the attack on Gdańsk in September 1939...

Edit: I just found this mention of naval infantry online (it's wikipedia, so more authoritative source would be needed)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizat ... l_Infantry

I know nothing about those units, or whether they would have been involved in the kind of security duties I am asking about.

Also, this quote looks to be along the lines of what I was looking for...
Port security was divided into shore security, harbor security, and land defense. Every port maintained its own small security force as part of the Marine Kustenpolizei (Navy Shore Police) which was augmented by a larger unit known as the Landesschützen-Kompanie which also included naval reservists. Harbor security was maintained by a completely separate command chain and did not operationally involve the port commander. The port commander further did not command the naval land defense units, such as flak batteries and naval coastal artillery, which also answered to their own chains of command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizat ... Navy_Ports

I would like to learn a bit more about the above-mentioned security units, if anyone has information to share.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Base/port security units?

#4

Post by Sid Guttridge » 21 Jan 2019, 12:59

Hi koczownik,

I think you will find that the naval infantry divisions mentioned in your link were raised in the last weeks of the war. By then the Kriegsmarine had a lot of excess manpower, as most of its major warships had been sunk and there were far fewer foreign ports to defend. They were extemporized conventional infantry divisions raised by the navy, not marine infantry as such.

Again from memory, I think before the war Germany had about seven naval abteilungen to provide artillery and security for ports. As the Wehrmacht advanced, more such units were created, starting with Memel after March 1939.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Natter
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Re: Base/port security units?

#5

Post by Natter » 22 Jan 2019, 23:27

Not sure if it's relevant, but you can find a little information on the forming of "2. Marinedivision" (airdefence-unit) in NARA T-315 Roll 2298:
Attachments
2mdiv.JPG

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Base/port security units?

#6

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Jan 2019, 11:50

Hi Guys,

It looks as though I was wrong and Germany did have a small naval infantry unit. The following is on Wiki:

The Marine-Stoßtrupp-Kompanie was formed in March 1938. It initially consisted of two infantry platoons, one engineer platoon and one weapons platoon with a total strength about 250 men. On 1 September 1939 it took part in the Battle of Westerplatte.

In 1940 the unit was expanded to six companies as Marine-Stoßtrupp-Abteilung. The formation participated in the occupation of Normandy and the Channel Islands.

However, the article does not explain what happened to it after 1940, but the following AHF link does:

viewtopic.php?t=207783

Cheers,

Sid.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Base/port security units?

#7

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Jan 2019, 11:55

Hi Koczownik,

The answer to your original question might lie at: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... derung.htm

Cheers,

Sid.

Felix C
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Re: Base/port security units?

#8

Post by Felix C » 23 Jan 2019, 17:37

If you ever have the opportunity to read The Greatest Raid of All regarding st. Nazaire there are considerable details into German security of this port.

koczownik
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Re: Base/port security units?

#9

Post by koczownik » 25 Jan 2019, 23:25

Natter wrote:
22 Jan 2019, 23:27
Not sure if it's relevant, but you can find a little information on the forming of "2. Marinedivision" (airdefence-unit) in NARA T-315 Roll 2298:
Thank you for that.
Sid Guttridge wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 11:50
It looks as though I was wrong and Germany did have a small naval infantry unit. The following is on Wiki:

The Marine-Stoßtrupp-Kompanie was formed in March 1938. It initially consisted of two infantry platoons, one engineer platoon and one weapons platoon with a total strength about 250 men. On 1 September 1939 it took part in the Battle of Westerplatte.
Ah, this must be the unit I was thinking of that was involved in the attack on Gdańsk.
Sid Guttridge wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 11:55
The answer to your original question might lie at: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... derung.htm
Thank you, I can't read German but I will try to use a translator.
Felix C wrote:
23 Jan 2019, 17:37
If you ever have the opportunity to read The Greatest Raid of All regarding st. Nazaire there are considerable details into German security of this port.
Thanks, I'll add that book to my to-do list :)

koczownik
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Re: Base/port security units?

#10

Post by koczownik » 25 Jan 2019, 23:36

Regarding one of the naval security forces I asked about earlier in this thread (Marine Kustenpolizei), I found another thread from this website which has a bit of info: viewtopic.php?t=79203

Still don't know anything about the Landesschützen-Kompanie. Google is mostly turning up German-language sources, which is ok if I have to use a translator. But if anyone here has info, please share.

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