Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

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Rian
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Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 22 Feb 2020 21:36

Was in march 1945 any ships sank in or near Kolberg by polish 4th mixed air division? Polish and russian gave informations, that 3rd regiment (il2m3) sank one transport ship (soviet airmen Kitajev and his polish wingman) and four barges. But any types, names etc. In one of periodics is information, that transport ship sank by Kitajev had 6000 tons!! In my opinion it's impossible. So, where is truth??

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 22 Feb 2020 21:57

Oh - by Rohwer - 12th march 1945 near Kolberg was sunk "by soviet aircrafts" ship "M 3137". But in reality near Kolberg was at this time only polish 4th mixed air division.
Should be this armed drifter " transport ship" from Kitajev raport??

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 26 Feb 2020 03:25

It's very hard to deter german losses in 1945. Mostly, ships sunk and damaged in sea on Baltic fell victims of VVS KBF or allied mass-bombing.
M.3137 was one of later - she was destroyed in Swinemunde during attack of US 8th AF.
I know very small amount of ships hit near Kolberg - little A/S cutter UJ.119 damaged at 10.3.45 by planes. There was some more cases, but all from artillery or in accidents.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 26 Feb 2020 21:53

Yes - it's very hard to deter german losses in Baltic Sea in 1945. You wrote, that "M 3137" was sunk in Swinemunde, Rowher, that in 12 III near Kolberg and in other book, that in same day near Latvia… 3 different points for one ship…

I'm very interesting about Kitajev (and his polish wingman) victory (sank of transport ship), becouse polish commander gave him high polish order - "Cross of Grunwald" for sunk this ship.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 27 Feb 2020 02:51

M.3137 was sunk in Swinemunde - this confirmed in Ultra interception DEFE 3/556-145 (report of Flottille ingenieur). It's only documentary sealed version i know. Rohwer has many errors if you start to compare him with docs. Books also has errors frequently.
As to Kitajev you must at last give date of his sinking to know possible candidates.
As i wrote before, i know only one possible victim of aviation at Kolberg -UJ.119 on 10.3.45

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 28 Feb 2020 21:57

Polish divers found on the bottom of port in Kolberg some ex polish and ex french 75 mm guns on ship's base. In history of fourth's mixed air division is information about four barges sunk in port
Was any type of german barges armed in ex polish or ex french 75 mm guns??

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Darius333 » 28 Feb 2020 23:47

Hi Rian,

https://historisches-marinearchiv.de/pr ... hronik.php
Put "Kolberg" into "Freitext-Suche" + "Chroniktext" as option.

Siebelfähren SF 327 and SF 328 are given as destroyed in Kolberg on 18.03.1945 by artillery.
The MFP F 193 and F 208 are maybe also of interest, because these were damaged/destroyed? - MFPs had old polish or french guns used.


Regards

Darius

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 02 Mar 2020 02:54

F.193 was sunk in accident according to Ultra and MOK Ostsee. F.208 was grounded near Stolpmunde but later salvaged. I have no other data about her loss.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 05 Mar 2020 01:03

MFP F193 sank according to polish dws.org forum during evacuation of Kolberg on the mines. In 2018 polish divers found some fragments of MFP (incuding french 75 mm gun) few km east of centre Kolberg near beach in Podczele (ex Kolberg Stadtwald where during war was Luftwaffe barracks for nearly military airfield). Polish divers and historians from Kolberg military museum identified this fragments as fragments of MFP F193. But any soviet ships put mines near Kolberg in february / march 1945?? If not - maybe mines was put by 2nd bomb regiment from 4 mixed air division?? Or ship was sunk by artillery??
Last edited by Rian on 05 Mar 2020 08:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 05 Mar 2020 03:47

As i say above, F.193 wasn't sunk by mine. Commander of 11th Landungflottille radioed to 10th Sicherungsdivision: MFP 193 total lost due storm damage. From crew of 21 only 5 saved (DEFE 3-532). It happen at 23.45 1.2.45 about 1 mile NE from exit form Kolberg haven. So there no trace of mines or planes in this loss.
Soviet side laid mines in Baltic only by fleet aviation and by subs.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 08 Mar 2020 19:03

This topics is part of bigger thema from polish dws.org.pl forum - "polish planes against axis ships". I have data from Western front:

Submarines:
2 IX 1942 - REGINALDO GIULIANI (heavy damage 2 KIA, 3 WIA incl. commander)
14 VI 1943 - two german submarines damaged: U-68 and U-155 (together 1 KIA, 8 WIA incl. commander of u-68)
3 I 1944 - U-625
4 I 1944 - U-629 (heavy damage by 304 Sqn)
16 II 1945 - U-1019 (moderate damage by 304 Sqn)
2 IV 1945 - sunk U-321 (41 KIA - all hands by 304 Sqn)

Surface ships:
- 1940 - one "river boat" sunk by night 307 Sqn (part of german invasion fleet)
- 15 May 1941 - attack planes from 303rd Sqn against small convoy: VP1805 (ex french. "Senateur Louis Brindeau") damaged by one plane (3 WIA), auxilliary minesweeper "Dirk" (ex dutch ship) and one tug (ex french "Barfleur") damaged by second plane (together 2 KIA, 3 WIA)
- 1944 some "Negers" destroyed

+ F 391 sank by tanks of 1st Armoured Division, KFK 52 occupied by soldiers of this division (+ hundreds of small ships in Wilhelmshaven when port captured to soldiers po polish soldiers but it is other history).

It is correct data?? But maybe any polish squadrons sank any other ships in ports (eg. Bordeaux, Le Havre etc)

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 10 Mar 2020 04:10

U.625 was damaged on 4.1.44, 05.53.
Vice versa, U.629 was attacked on 3.1.44 (00.13) and have no damages.
Other data about sub is OK in my view.
KFK 52 has designation M.3662=ship from 36 Minensuchflottille. She was hit by artillery on 19.9.44 near Terneunzen and stranded to became total loss.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Rian » 11 Mar 2020 00:47

Ok. Thx.

One more question. 12th September 1942 plane from 304 Sqn. attacked "Altmark type tanker" between Satander and Gijon. Should be this ship "Spichern"??

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by igorr » 11 Mar 2020 08:32

It think, it was she. KTB SKL say that SPICHERN was taken in convoy at 10.40 12.9.42 by 3 T-bootsflottile in BF9717, i.e. west from Santander. Ship has broken left motor because of bomb detonation nearby. Alas, i have no docs about west theater for this periode besides KTB SKL.

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Re: Kolberg 1945 - any ships sank by polish 4th mixed air division?

Post by Darius333 » 11 Mar 2020 21:29

Hi,

I think a little bit off topic, but here are some data on SPICHERN action:

https://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/42-09.htm
2.– 12.9.1942
Biskaya
Das dt.Trossschiff Passat wird am 2.9. auf der Reede von St. Nazaire durch Bombentreffer schwer beschädigt und danach nicht mehr wie vorgesehen als Blockadebrecher eingesetzt. Ein Ausbruchsversuch der dt. Blockadebrecher-Tanker Spichern und Brake wird nach Bombentreffern auf Spichern in der Nacht zum 12.9. abgebrochen.
KTB MGK West gives SPICHERN returning because of being shadowed by planes since midnight of 12.09.1942.

Graumann/Harnack/Teichmann, "1., 2., 3. Torpedobootsflottille", Bd. 2:
12.09.1942 3. T-Fl. mit T 13 (F), T 10 T 14 morgens St. Jean de Luz ausgelaufen. Marsch entlang der Grenze der span. Gewässer nach Westen.
10.25 Uhr Tanker SPICHERN, der wegen Fliegerbombenschäden einen Ausbruchsversuch in den Atlantik abgebrochen hatte, gesichtet. Geleitsicherung bei dessen Marsch in die Biskaya übernommen.
Was SPICHERN or BRAKE attacked?

Regards

Darius

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