Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
Felix C
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Felix C » 09 Jul 2021 11:50

Efforts to mine the Remagen Bridge by frogmen is an interesting operation.

Linkagain
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Linkagain » 09 Jul 2021 21:07

Both the Kriegsmarine and the Waffen SS had Frogmen.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommando_ ... fte_Marine

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bettika
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by bettika » 07 Jan 2022 17:54

Hi Roel,
There are three photos on the web showing British troops inspecting them. I was in touch with the owner of the photos. He told me his father had photographed the Wal as a member of the Vernon mine department and that they could have been taken to Scotland for inspection, where the department had been relocated.
I think you mean photos like this https://www.mcdoa.org.uk/images/Vernon% ... inisub.jpg
I have discussed them in another forum https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/i ... 518.0.html
I believe they have been taken in Germany Priwall or Pötenitz .Fock wrote in his book about WAL , the K-Verband made his trials in the "Luftwaffendepot Travemünde" Travemünde-Bay
In the discussion came a source in TNA as possible https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... r/C3730889

Brgds
Beate

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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Ulsinus » 05 Jun 2023 13:53

Hi Simon,

HMS Isis was sunk on July 20, 1944, at about 6pm in Seine Bay.
The cause has been ascribed to either a mine or manned torpedo depending on which text you read.
I would like to establish which is the more likely cause. Ideally beyond reasonable doubt possible.
From a variety of secondary sources I understand the following:

K-Verband Unit 361 with 40 negers arrived in Normandy June 28.
July 6 attack. 26 launched, 2 forced back. Only 9 returned.Leaving 25 for next attack.
July 8 attack. 25 launched. 21 failed to return. Leaving 4.

I would like to establish that no further attacks by negers or manders took place in July 1944.

From secondary sources I believe K-Verband Unit 361 waited until reinforcements arrived in August when 42 manders arrived. A mass attack then took place on 16 into 17 August.

I have read your posts and wonder if signals:
XL 3450 1048 hrs 26 July Provides detailed review of movements & projected operations by small battle units. Notes ‘human torpedo’ operations in Seine Bay by two flotillas, one on night of 5-6 July & another the following night. First unit involved is returning to Lübeck via Paris. Another flotilla will arrive in Paris area during week beginning 9 July. Also reviews operations in Mediterranean.
And/or
XL 8060 2208 hrs 26 Aug Report 24 August summarises activities of small battle units up to that date. 211th Flotilla operated in Seine bay on nights of 5-6 July & 8-9 August, & has returned to Germany. 212th Flotilla has not yet operated but will be ready to leave Baltic around 31 August. According to HQ of small battle units on 17 August, it is to operate in the West or – if this is impossible – the Mediterranean. 261st Flotilla has not yet operated & was expected to leave Germany for West on 21 August. It is to carry out an operation from Fécamp on 29-30 August. 361st Flotilla operated in Seine bay on night 7-8 July & appears to have returned to Germany. 362nd Flotilla operated in Seine bay on night 2-3 August, is now in Tournai probably returning to Baltic. 363rd Flotilla operated in Seine bay on nights 15-16 & 16-17 August. Now moving via Le Havre to Baltic. 364th Flotilla has not yet operated. It was to do so in Le Havre area but intention given up on 23 August & HQ states it will go to Mediterranean.
XL 8136 1029 hrs 27 Aug Describes situation in NW France up to 0700 hrs 27 August, according to German naval sources. Brief reference to special operation from Fécamp.
Might resolve my question.

Your help, guidance, and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes

Bob








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Manuferey
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Manuferey » 07 Jun 2023 20:04

There's a great book on the subject: "Weapons of Desperation – German Frogmen and Midget Submarines of WWII” by Lawrence Paterson< You can find it on line.

Emmanuel

Ulsinus
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Ulsinus » 08 Jun 2023 13:28

Hi Emmanuel,

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm pleased to say that I already have a copy and what a great book it is.
It repeats the claim that Isis was probably sunk by a manned torpedoed but sadly doesn't give a specific reference that can be cross checked.

I suspect this and the other claims in print hark back to the book--- Bekker, Cajus: K-Men: The Story of the German Frogmen and Midget Submarines (William Kimber and Co. Ltd., London 1955). In it the author makes a vague reference that in addition to those Neger attacks on July 5 and 7 a further attack took place in July. Date unspecified.

BTW I also have a copy of Hitler's Secret Commandos: Operations of the K-Verband by Helmut Blocksdorf. Another excellent book.

Once again thank you for your interest

Bob

Richard Stone
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Richard Stone » 13 Nov 2023 16:35

The two attached short articles discuss the explosive speed boats used by the Kriegsmarine.

Both articles are translations of German news reports from the late 1944 and early 1945 period and were reprinted in the 1945 edition of USA professional military reference magazine ‘Military Review’.

The first article was printed in the May 1945 issue and the second was printed in the August 1945 issue.

Combat Notes - Mil11 Review May 1945 - Expl Speed Boat-1.png
Combat Notes - Mil11 Review May 1945 - Expl Speed Boat-2.png
Combat Notes - Mil11 Review Aug 1945 - Expl Speed Boat-1.png
Combat Notes - Mil11 Review Aug 1945 - Expl Speed Boat-2.png
Combat Notes - Mil11 Review Aug 1945 - Expl Speed Boat-3.png
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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Re: Kriegsmarine frogmen, high speed explosive boats and one-man submarines?

Post by Waleed Y. Majeed » 15 Nov 2023 03:02

Looking at the images shown in the articles I’m not sure the first image is a german “sprengboot”. Looks like an italian type M.T.M. Second image I would say are Linse boats - the german equivalent. Someone got something wrong at the Military Review back in 1945. Although it should be noted in their defence 8-) the germans also used italian types of explosive speedboats.

Waleed

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