Arado Ar 196 of Kreuzer Prinz Eugen

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Aziraphale
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Arado Ar 196 of Kreuzer Prinz Eugen

#1

Post by Aziraphale » 19 Apr 2004, 22:43

Hi,

I'd like to know more about the aircraft on board "Prinz Eugen".
Is there any list which aircraft (W.Nr., codes, types) have been on the ship and perhaps some further information on the pilots?

The real question I'd like to get an answer to is: Which aircraft (and crews) took part in night fighting in the vicinity of Libau in summer 1944? Reportedly they hunter Russian Po-2 which were too slow to be effectively hunted with other German night fighting aircraft.

Thanks in advance,

Azi.

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Erich
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#2

Post by Erich » 20 Apr 2004, 01:34

summer of 44 would be Ju 88G's of NJG 100. The Po-2 was easy prey to nachtjäger Ju 88's, wheels down, lay back and a 2 sec blast with four 2cm weapons and ....................good-bye !


Aziraphale
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#3

Post by Aziraphale » 20 Apr 2004, 07:27

Erich,

Thanks - but I meant the Ar 196 (although any Ju 88 reference material is welcome as well)!

Cheers, Azi.

varjag
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#4

Post by varjag » 20 Apr 2004, 12:37

Ain't got much Aziraphale; in the book PRINZ EUGEN (by Fritz-Otto Busch) he says that on 20.8.44 in the Bay of Riga the P/E launched 'all three Ar 196's' for artillery spotting of the bombardment of Tukkum. 'The oldest' of the ships pilots was a Lt. Stoll - who appearently after end of bombardment took his airgroup on a gun-attack against Soviet troops around the Tukkum railway station. One a/c was damaged by Soviet AA.
The Arados were T3+KH, MH and CH. The book mentions nothing about any downed Po-2 in Libau area in 1944. As the Po-2's (Nachthexen) were likely to operate in darkness - it seems strange that the P/E airgroup would have done the same? Night landings at sea - even a summery Baltic - are a VERY risky operation. Did they really do it?

Edward L. Hsiao
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Used at night.

#5

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 22 Apr 2004, 08:15

Gentlemen,

In one classic book about the German Night Fighter Force by Gerhard Adler,all three of the float planes from the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen were used as night fighters indeed. Unfortunately the book didn't mention of any successes against Soviet night intruders. :|

Edward

Aziraphale
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#6

Post by Aziraphale » 22 Apr 2004, 22:45

@varjag: A very interesting question I didn't ponder before... Anybody got information on night water landings?

@Edward: The book is by Gebhard Aders (not Gerhard Adler - was looking up that name furiously until I realised the typing error... ;) ) and has been my initial source...

Cheers, Azi.

Edward L. Hsiao
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Oh Brother!

#7

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 23 Apr 2004, 00:26

Dear Sir,

I'm so sorry that I made a typing mistake on the German author's first and last name. I knew who he was and thought I spell his name right but I was wrong. :oops: By the way the Arado Ar 196 was certainly a multi-purpose floatplane. Germany may not had any aircraft carriers in service but these Ar 196's from the Prinz Eugen and other big ships were really useful for defensive and offensive purposes. :)

Sincerely,

Edward

brustcan
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Re: Arado Ar 196 of Kreuzer Prinz Eugen

#8

Post by brustcan » 23 Apr 2004, 19:47

Aziraphale wrote:Hi,

I'd like to know more about the aircraft on board "Prinz Eugen".
Is there any list which aircraft (W.Nr., codes, types) have been on the ship and perhaps some further information on the pilots?

The real question I'd like to get an answer to is: Which aircraft (and crews) took part in night fighting in the vicinity of Libau in summer 1944? Reportedly they hunter Russian Po-2 which were too slow to be effectively hunted with other German night fighting aircraft.

Thanks in advance,

Azi.
At the end of the war, Arado 196A-3 code GDAX was removed from the "Prinz Eugen" and shipped to the United States.
It is now in the Smithsonian Institute. Thanks brustcan.

Aziraphale
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#9

Post by Aziraphale » 23 Apr 2004, 21:31

brustcan,

Thanks for this - but is this the code of today or the one it held at the time the Americans took control of the ship?
I have reason to believe that at least the camouflage has been altered - perhaps the code as well...

Azi.

varjag
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#10

Post by varjag » 24 Apr 2004, 13:42

@Aziraphale - the snag with night water-landings is that the pilot, unless it's a bright full moon - but even that can be deceptive - has no horizon to assist him in judging the last few meters between the water and his aircraft.
@ Edward - the Ar 196 was certainly a 'multi-purpose' aircraft but like everything 'multi' it fell short in important areas. Notably - as a seaplane. Once in the air - it was superior to any other naval float-plane in the European theatre. BUT when it came to landing on water - especially on the oceans - or even worse, take off from it - it fell woefully short of the standards required in the British, American and Japanese navies.

Aziraphale
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#11

Post by Aziraphale » 24 Apr 2004, 14:05

varjag,

Where do you take this from? I'd be interested in knowing your sources.

Cheers, Azi.

Jan-Erik
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#12

Post by Jan-Erik » 24 Apr 2004, 23:08

Hi

Do you know where one might find out the aircrafts codes on the planes carried by different ships?

As far as i have found out:
Bismarck carried: T3+AK, T3+DL, T3+IH and T3+MJ
Tirpitz carried: BB+YF, T3+BL, T3+DL, T3+GK, T3+HK, T3+LH and T3+LK
Scharnhorst: T3+DH, T3+EH, and T3?+FM
Gniesenau:?
Admiral Sheer: T3+BH
Admiral Graf Spee:?
Deutschland/Lützow:?
Prinz Eugen: T3+KH, T3+MH, T3+CH
Admiral Hipper: T3+DH, T3+HK and T3+MH who was sunk when damaged
Blücher:?

HSK1 Orion:?
HSK4 Thor:?
HSK5 Pinguin:?
HSK6 Stier:?
HSK7 Komet:?
HSK8 Kormoran:?
HSK9 Michel:?

Regards/Jan-Erik

Aziraphale
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#13

Post by Aziraphale » 24 Apr 2004, 23:53

Jan-Erik,

Any chance you could give your references?

Thanks, Azi.

varjag
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#14

Post by varjag » 25 Apr 2004, 12:59

Aziraphale wrote:varjag,

Where do you take this from? I'd be interested in knowing your sources.

Cheers, Azi.
There was a litania of complaints about the seaworthiness of the Ar 196 - not least from the HK - who lacked catapults, about landing damages, hairy take-off attempts - and failed take-off attempts. Seems to have centred around a high wing-loading, long take-off run to get airborne, too high landing speed and 'totally unsuited for operations on the high seas...' (Capt. Weyher/ HK ORION) The RN/USN/IJN 'blue water' navies focussed on single-float designs, Walrus/Grumman J2F/Nakajima E8N - all low performance biplanes - but far more seaworthy than the Arados. In fact HK ORION operated for some time a Japanese E8N in the Pacific before another Arado was supplied from Germany and was found to be 'far more suitable' than the German design.

brustcan
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Arado 196 on Prinz Eugen

#15

Post by brustcan » 25 Apr 2004, 20:43

Aziraphale wrote:brustcan,

Thanks for this - but is this the code of today or the one it held at the time the Americans took control of the ship?
I have reason to believe that at least the camouflage has been altered - perhaps the code as well...

Azi.
Hi Azi, the Arado with the code GA DX is shown in a photograph being removed off of the Prinz Eugen using the ships crane.
I have not been able to find a clear picture of what the markings of the
aircraft are now in the Smithsonian. thanks brustcan.

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