AA-cruiser Niobe

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Karl234
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Post by Karl234 » 10 Mar 2005 11:55

In The Diary of OKW is written:
"14.11.43 Italy, Heeres Gruppe B take the isles Lussino, Cherso und Krk. The Kriegsmarine was saving with Kreuzer "Niobe"."

Was there a second Cruiser Niobe in the Mediterrarean Sea?

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 10 Mar 2005 12:25

Yes , Kleiner Kreuzer NIOBE , built in 1899 at A.G. Weser , sold to Yugoslavia in 1926 as a training cruiser .After the capitulation of 1941 it was handed over to Regia Marina , and after Italy ( as always :D ) turned over to the enemy it was taken on 11.9.1943 and enlisted with his original name "Niobe" at Kriegsmarine .


Jan-Hendrik

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Franklin
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Pe-2 Lt. Col. Vasiliy I. Rakov crew

Post by Franklin » 09 May 2005 16:48

Hi!

Which the name and rank of the crew of the Pe-2 who had flow by Lt. Col. Vasiliy I. Rakov in the attack to the Flakschiff Niobe in July 16th 1944?

Thank's

Franklin

zmija
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Kleiner Kreuzer Niobe

Post by zmija » 15 Oct 2005 22:45

You can find info on this ship in this book: Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe by Heinz Ciupa.

König Diamant
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Post by König Diamant » 27 Jan 2006 14:08

An interesting thread...
I just met a man who was a child in the 50's Kotka. Niobe's wreck was still there, and of course a great place for adventures for boys. Trips to the wreck were done with rowing boats, and ammo etc equipment was collected, diven up and evacuated from there. Two boys even died in an explosion later, caused by the handling of the ammo taken from Niobe.

Some time ago I found from a photo archive a photo of Niobe's commander, as the ship visited Turku. No name there, though. If someone's interested, I can dig that up.

About that "how many planes were shot down" conversation I'd say that 1 plane shot down and 5 damaged sounds fairly convincing. It was a quick, violent, well-planned assault; hard to shoot back 100% effectively in a case like that. In a situation like that, planes do not just fall down all around like dead leaves.

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 27 Jan 2006 15:46

A book by Vesa Toivonen (Tampellasta Patriaan - 70 vuotta suomalaista raskasta aseenvalmistusta,
From Tampella to Patria - 70 years of Finnish Heavy Weapons Production, APALI, 2003) has a photo on numerous 105 mm AA guns under repairs at Tampella plant. It is claimed on photo caption that they are the former guns of Niobe. 8O

A few questions arise:
1. Were the Niobe AA guns (105 mm and others) really taken into Finnish service after the war?
2. What happened to these guns after that?
3. Are these guns still stored somewhere?

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Jan 2006 00:19

König Diamant wrote:Some time ago I found from a photo archive a photo of Niobe's commander, as the ship visited Turku. No name there, though. If someone's interested, I can dig that up.
Hi,
Of course it interests :)
It would be nice to see it if you can and will show it to us.

Harri wrote:A few questions arise:
1. Were the Niobe AA guns (105 mm and others) really taken into Finnish service after the war?
2. What happened to these guns after that?
3. Are these guns still stored somewhere?
Hi,

According to the Itsenäisen Suomen Laivaston Laivatykit 1918-2004 (The Naval Artillery of Independent Finland ...) by Pekka Kiiskinen and Pasi Wahlman
state that:
1,2,3) eight 105mm guns, 105/45-RI (Finnish code) or 105 45 41 LT (German code, I believe) were raised (with 5000 or 9000 ammo, depending on sources) in 1953. One of them had been damaged during the attack beyond repair, but the rest seven were repaired at Pansio works. Tampella made new barrels to them 1960. Fiskars tried to produce new recoil springs, but they proved to be too weak. New and lasting springs were ordered and received from Bofors.

According to an unconfirmed story one of the guns was temporary fitted to the minelayer Keihässalmi, but soon removed (because no-one dared to fire with it :roll: )
1982 Statistics shows that four of the guns were at Turku Naval Station and three at Helsinki Naval Station
From 1970's to 1990's at Upinniemi there was a training battery 105 R-Harjoituspatteri (harjoituspatteri = training battery) using the "Niobe-guns"
When the "half-charge" (puolipanos) ammo were expended and the use of "full charge" ammo was considered as a safety risk, the 105 R guns ended up to Vammala arms depot, to be sold away.

Regards, Juha

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 28 Jan 2006 12:32

Interesting, thanks Juha! I assume book is a publication of War Museum? Definately one of the books to be added to my "books to buy" list. :wink:

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Dido
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Post by Dido » 30 Jan 2006 12:47

König Diamant wrote: I just met a man who was a child in the 50's Kotka. Niobe's wreck was still there, and of course a great place for adventures for boys.
My information is that the wreck was scrapped in 1952-53 which relates with the date that her guns were salvaged.

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Post by König Diamant » 30 Jan 2006 20:05

I've got that Niobe's commander photo on cd-rom in another place just now, I'll post it as soon as I can. It's from Akseli Raninen's collection if someone knows that (many great naval photos there generally)... Also I must say here, those attack photos taken from the air are truly outstanding. My god what drama. An interesting-looking website that where they are from, too bad my Russian is a bit rusty.

Those War Museum's publications are of excellent quality all. Especially I like the "Itsenäisen Suomen rannikkotykit" book (about Finnish coastal artillery) written by Ove Enqvist, a coastal artillery officer, whom I respect hugely as a historian. Nothing to add into that book. Perfect.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Jan 2006 23:42

Harri wrote:Interesting, thanks Juha! I assume book is a publication of War Museum? Definately one of the books to be added to my "books to buy" list. :wink:
Actually I bought it from War Museum but it's published by Typomic Oy http://www.luetutkirjat.com/Valmiit/laivatykit1918.htm
König Diamant wrote:I've got that Niobe's commander photo on cd-rom in another place just now, I'll post it as soon as I can. It's from Akseli Raninen's collection if someone knows that (many great naval photos there generally)
Great :)

Regards, Juha

König Diamant
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Post by König Diamant » 01 Feb 2006 08:36

Here goes...
An excellent photo, isn't it? Any knowledge of this man, anyone? I know next to nothing about this photo, except that it's taken when Niobe visited Turku some time.
Source: Akseli Raninen's archives.
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Mischa
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Post by Mischa » 02 Feb 2006 20:39

Hello,
this is Korvettenkapitän Otto Kümpel (1891-1935), the commander of the "unlucky" school-ship "Niobe" of the Reichsmarine (sunk 1932) between June 1929 and February 1932. This officer has nothing to do with "our" Flakbatterie "Niobe"

Regards from the frostly Upper Silesia
Mischa

PetrOsipov
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Post by PetrOsipov » 11 Oct 2007 08:21

I just have to say that the brother of my great-granddad was flying one of the Pe-2s striking the Niobe, as a wingman of Rakov, diving second on the target, and being credited with a direct hit on the Niobe's funnel. His aircraft was not shot down by Flak, but he managed to limp it to Lavensari (or Gogland?) and beach it there. A photo in my family archive (unluckily lost with some 30 other never-published photos of my granny's archive when the house's heating pipe ruptured and the drawer with the photos ran full with steaming hot water) shows it after that landing - a wingtip shot off, engine on the other wing demolished, fuselage nose with a huge gaping hole, radioman dead, navigator badly wounded, my relative also wounded, and about 300 splinter and bullet hits..

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Re: AA-cruiser Niobe

Post by Felix C » 04 Oct 2012 16:20

Pardon this very late addition to this thread but I cannot resist...

I presume the Niobe being in shallow water magnified the mining effect of near misses.

Why was the ship not underway and so be able to upset the aim of the bombers? Stationary target easier to shoot from but also easier to hit in terms of establishing bomb trajectory from within the cockpit.

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