Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?
Kriegsmarine Aircraft Carrier?
Did NAZI Germany ever have a carrier or try to develop one?
They had one almost finished. Graf Zeppelin was the name of it, was pretty large also fleet size. The Soviets took it after the war and checked it out then sunk it. Was just mainly a hull. There was also a conversion going on for a light carrier, but it did not get far I do not think.
CV Stuka Bomber
And there would have been MESSERSCHMITT BF 109T-1 of which I have a model photo of, had a little more wing span and other mods that were not much different then the original:
http://www.airandseamodels.com/demo/109t/109t.htm
CV Stuka Bomber
And there would have been MESSERSCHMITT BF 109T-1 of which I have a model photo of, had a little more wing span and other mods that were not much different then the original:
http://www.airandseamodels.com/demo/109t/109t.htm
Last edited by Caldric on 27 Aug 2002, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard Murphy
- Member
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- Joined: 09 Mar 2002, 20:24
- Location: Bletchley, England
The question is: Why?
What was the point in Germany having an aircraft carrier if not just purely for reasons of prestige? They had no overseas provinces to protect (Such as had the UK, US and Japan. It should be noted that France had overseas colonies, but hadn't got far in developing a fleet air arm.), and, in the event of war, little use for a carrier, even in relation to attacks on the UK.
There was no sensible reason for her very expensive (In terms of all resources.) development.
Regards from the Park,
Rich
What was the point in Germany having an aircraft carrier if not just purely for reasons of prestige? They had no overseas provinces to protect (Such as had the UK, US and Japan. It should be noted that France had overseas colonies, but hadn't got far in developing a fleet air arm.), and, in the event of war, little use for a carrier, even in relation to attacks on the UK.
There was no sensible reason for her very expensive (In terms of all resources.) development.
Regards from the Park,
Rich
Tirpitz and Graf Zeppelin in Norwegian waters during 1942-43 would have made a big difference. Without air cover Tirpitz was always on constant scare of Fleet Air Arm, which limited it's operations seriously.Richard Murphy wrote: There was no sensible reason for her very expensive (In terms of all resources.) development.
Regards from the Park,
Rich
BTW. Carriers are quite cheap compared to battleships. No need to build heavy guns and turrets, which need exceedingly long development time and a lot of highly skilled labour and expensive machinery to be build, also much less scarce armour plate is needed.
According to the Anglo-German Naval Treaty, the Reich had the approval to build aircraft carriers for a total tonnage of 38,500tons.
The German planning called for two 19,250ton carriers, "A"(Graf Zeppelin) to be built by Deutsche Werke in Kiel and had been laid down in 1937, and "B"(Peter Strasser) to be built by Germaniawerft also in Kiel, laid down in 1938.
Graf Zeppelin had been launched on December 8, 1938, in front of an audience in which the honor seats were taken by Adolf Hitler and Hermann Goering.
The data of the planned ship were:
Officially claimed/Real:
Displacement: 19,250t/over 20,000t
Power: 110,000shp/200,000shp
Speed: 32 knots/34-35 knots
Technologically, the Graf Zeppelin had been a combination of advanced technical solutions and clumsiness.
In the 1942 revised form, the technical data of the vessel were to be:
Displacement standard/fully equipped: 23,000/33,500 tons
Length: 262m
Beam: 36m
Draught: 8.5m
Flight deck: 260 x 27 m
Upper hangar deck: 183 x 16 m
Lower hangar deck: 170 x 16 m
3 elevators
Crew(not counting airmen): 1760
Weapons: 16x150mm(casemates)
12x105mm dual-purpose(six turrets flanking the island)
22x37mm AA(dual mounts)
28x20mm AA
Aircraft: 42 out of which 28 Ju-87C
Range: 8000nm at 18kt
Her machinery was the most powerful ever built in Europe for a warship, using four shafts and Brown Boweri turbines to allow her enough speed to outrun even an USS Alaska battlecruiser. Plus, she had very good manoueuvrability due to two Diesel-powered Voith-Schneider propellers at the bow, used to manoeuver in confined areas like the Kiel Canal. These 2x900shp machines could drive the vessel in emergency at 4 knots.
The hull was a derivative of the heavy cruisers, with clipper bow to avoid the ship to be "wet" on rough seas. The flight deck was armored(20mm).
The twin catapults used could take the airplanes already "aimed" on each of them from the elevator.
Here ends the technological advantages of the ship herself.
The clumsiness stood in the fact that she was "more carrier than aircraft", and that unlike the American carriers she counted also on artillery for ship-to-ship combat. Her air group, considering the tonnage, was ridiculously small. Pity, because her equipment with the very accurate Ju-87C would have meant a perfect marriage between a superb anti-ship weapon(the plane that sunk more ships that any other type in history, even from land bases) and a very good ocean boat. But knowing the sensitivity of the Stuka to AAA and fighters, they should have been more. And better protected by more fighters.
A better solution would have been to drop the anti-surface artillery and keep the armored deck, but use the spared tonnage for more planes.
~Regards,
Ovidius
The German planning called for two 19,250ton carriers, "A"(Graf Zeppelin) to be built by Deutsche Werke in Kiel and had been laid down in 1937, and "B"(Peter Strasser) to be built by Germaniawerft also in Kiel, laid down in 1938.
Graf Zeppelin had been launched on December 8, 1938, in front of an audience in which the honor seats were taken by Adolf Hitler and Hermann Goering.
The data of the planned ship were:
Officially claimed/Real:
Displacement: 19,250t/over 20,000t
Power: 110,000shp/200,000shp
Speed: 32 knots/34-35 knots
Technologically, the Graf Zeppelin had been a combination of advanced technical solutions and clumsiness.
In the 1942 revised form, the technical data of the vessel were to be:
Displacement standard/fully equipped: 23,000/33,500 tons
Length: 262m
Beam: 36m
Draught: 8.5m
Flight deck: 260 x 27 m
Upper hangar deck: 183 x 16 m
Lower hangar deck: 170 x 16 m
3 elevators
Crew(not counting airmen): 1760
Weapons: 16x150mm(casemates)
12x105mm dual-purpose(six turrets flanking the island)
22x37mm AA(dual mounts)
28x20mm AA
Aircraft: 42 out of which 28 Ju-87C
Range: 8000nm at 18kt
Her machinery was the most powerful ever built in Europe for a warship, using four shafts and Brown Boweri turbines to allow her enough speed to outrun even an USS Alaska battlecruiser. Plus, she had very good manoueuvrability due to two Diesel-powered Voith-Schneider propellers at the bow, used to manoeuver in confined areas like the Kiel Canal. These 2x900shp machines could drive the vessel in emergency at 4 knots.
The hull was a derivative of the heavy cruisers, with clipper bow to avoid the ship to be "wet" on rough seas. The flight deck was armored(20mm).
The twin catapults used could take the airplanes already "aimed" on each of them from the elevator.
Here ends the technological advantages of the ship herself.
The clumsiness stood in the fact that she was "more carrier than aircraft", and that unlike the American carriers she counted also on artillery for ship-to-ship combat. Her air group, considering the tonnage, was ridiculously small. Pity, because her equipment with the very accurate Ju-87C would have meant a perfect marriage between a superb anti-ship weapon(the plane that sunk more ships that any other type in history, even from land bases) and a very good ocean boat. But knowing the sensitivity of the Stuka to AAA and fighters, they should have been more. And better protected by more fighters.
A better solution would have been to drop the anti-surface artillery and keep the armored deck, but use the spared tonnage for more planes.
~Regards,
Ovidius
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Aufklarung
- Member
- Posts: 5136
- Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:27
- Location: Canada
The USN first tried a catapult at GlennCurtis Works in Hammondsport NY in 1911. A compressed air version was used in 1912 at Annapolis and this type was installed on the quarter deck of BB USS North Carolina in 1915. The idea had been bandied around the world for few years but the first built and working was by the NSM (Nited States 'Merica).Navy Vet wrote:
Who was the first to use catapults?
Who was the first to have a carrier?
Was this ship ever in battle or lauched?
The first ship designed and built to operate conventional (wheeled) A/C was the HMS Hermes Royal Navy. Launched in 1918 she wasn't completed until 1925. Still the first though. The first carrier that looked like a carrier was HMS Argus in 1917.
Hermes was sunk by 85 Jap planes on 08 April 1942 off Ceylon.
Last edited by Aufklarung on 28 Aug 2002, 13:59, edited 2 times in total.