The Scharnhorst

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admfisher
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video

Post by admfisher » 11 Sep 2002 08:04

de-gouden-ridder wrote:A video? I would say: 'do you want to sent it to me when you saw it'.
But unfortunatly, we do not live in the neighberhood. :(

I'll think There will be vidoes in the bigger bibs of the counrty, maybe I will check them out.


I am talking of a 12 meg video clip that is taken from a VCR.
No video cases hear.

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 31 Dec 2002 15:20

Hi Erik
You wanted the names for the destroyers.

KNM STORD (Royal Norwegian Navy) Saumarez? was two of the destroyers. i have a book named "Klar til å åpne ild"(ready to open Fire)
By Nils Owren who was in charge of the firing controll on KNM STORD.

I think it was at least 4 S-class destroyers there and towo of them was STORD and SAUMAREZ(not sure of the spelling)
I have the book at home and will check it out.
Godt Nytt År Erik :)
Happy nwe Year to all

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Fred
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Post by Fred » 01 Jan 2003 11:01

Hi Erik
You wanted the names for the destroyers.


Savage
Saumarez
Stord
Scorpion

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 01 Jan 2003 18:04

Hi Fred.
Thanks for reminding me:) i just could't remember the other ships.
The North Cape Battle is a story of Heroes. 25. Des 43 the wind rise up to full storm and then they got the report of Scharnhort leaving ALta by norwegian homeforces. and they knew that they had a god chanse of getting involved in combat with one of the biggest ships in North Atlantic
Stord came in under 2000yards from S and fired 8 torpedoes before running in to the smoke the lay out.
There is a film made by the story. "The men who sunk Scharnhost"
It was recorded in winter 44 with some of the ships and men who was involved.

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Korbius
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Post by Korbius » 01 Jan 2003 18:47

Where was admiral Bey originally from, the commander of Scharnhorst?

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admfisher
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scharnhorst

Post by admfisher » 01 Jan 2003 22:53

LILLEBROR wrote:Hi Fred.
Thanks for reminding me:) i just could't remember the other ships.
The North Cape Battle is a story of Heroes. 25. Des 43 the wind rise up to full storm and then they got the report of Scharnhort leaving ALta by norwegian homeforces. and they knew that they had a god chanse of getting involved in combat with one of the biggest ships in North Atlantic
Stord came in under 2000yards from S and fired 8 torpedoes before running in to the smoke the lay out.
There is a film made by the story. "The men who sunk Scharnhost"
It was recorded in winter 44 with some of the ships and men who was involved.


It was an extremly tough battle due to weather and most of it being fought at night. But the Scharnhorst was not the largest ship the the North Atlantic, she was smaller than the the true battleship Duke of York.
As for the fight Admiral Bey should of gave up sooner but he was under pressure to give results or Hitler could fall back on his thoughts of scrapping the fleet. The Scharnhorst was outclassed that night.

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 02 Jan 2003 04:40

Admfisher wrote
It was an extremly tough battle due to weather and most of it being fought at night. But the Scharnhorst was not the largest ship the the North Atlantic, she was smaller than the the true battleship Duke of York.

It's true Scharnhost wasn't the biggest ship. but it was one of the biggest that the germans had. and it also had an escort of destroyers of "Narvik" class(i think it was that) who were better armed than the english(and Norwegian :) ) "S" class destroyers. They lost contact with the escort and that was a moment that actually could change the battle.
Five German destroyers coming in on torpedo attack on Duke Of York
could have been a disaster for the englis side and given scharnhorst a
good chanse to get back to Norway. [/b]

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admfisher
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LILLEBROR

Post by admfisher » 02 Jan 2003 06:15

LILLEBROR wrote:Admfisher wrote
It was an extremly tough battle due to weather and most of it being fought at night. But the Scharnhorst was not the largest ship the the North Atlantic, she was smaller than the the true battleship Duke of York.

It's true Scharnhost wasn't the biggest ship. but it was one of the biggest that the germans had. and it also had an escort of destroyers of "Narvik" class(i think it was that) who were better armed than the english(and Norwegian :) ) "S" class destroyers. They lost contact with the escort and that was a moment that actually could change the battle.
Five German destroyers coming in on torpedo attack on Duke Of York
could have been a disaster for the englis side and given scharnhorst a
good chanse to get back to Norway. [/b]


LILLEBROR the Narviks were horrible sea keeping vessels otherwise they would of been on station as the Tribals and other dd's were. Bey had ordered them back as they could not keep postion in the heavy sea's. As for saving the Scharnhorst I still do not think they would of been of much use. Once the RN engaged at first with the dd's and Ca's the Narviks would most likely have been dealt with in this phase. The Narviks chief proble was the heavy guns used of a narrow ship. The RN and US never went to the 6 in gun size as they weighed to much. As for loading the shells were passed up to the gun from the hole in the deck. The round for a German 5.9 would weigh around 95 pounds wich was extremly difficult to handle on a ship with the poor sea keeping allready. So in the long run the Narviks for all there hype they just were not that good.

The Scharnhorst at the her end was Germanies secound biggest ship the Tripitz was the largest. After the Scharnhorst it would of been Lutzow or Adm. Scheer.

:wink:

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Post by Galahad » 02 Jan 2003 10:32

A quibble.....From what I've read, the Lutzows were around 14000 tons displacment. Which means the largest German warship in commission after Tirpitz was gone would have been one of the Hippers.....probably Prinz Eugen, which at around 17000 tons was supposedly the heaviest of the Hippers.

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Post by Madsen » 02 Jan 2003 15:53

Quite right Admfisher. the Narvik ships were sent back because their poor fighting abillity in bad weather. But the English fleet couldn't bee sure of that. and in that extreme weather there was a chanse to sneak in with destroyers. Duke's radar was out for some time to.
it would bee a bad sight for sailors on Duke of York too see a Destroyer firing torpedoes at cloose range. at least Stord feared that, from the book i have, they only knew they lost contact with them, not were they was.
But as you say. 6inch guns is a BIG gun in a notthatbig destroyer.
:)

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Post by varjag » 04 Jan 2003 11:48

Question on the 'Narviks' - which, true to German philosophy attempted to squeeze a litre into a pint-bottle; how well did their hulls, machinery,valves and electrical systems stand up to the shock of more than 3-5 salvos of 6" before the ERA's had to run amok? Apart from their 'cruiser-guns' they were just the usual flimsy destroyer-hulls.

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Post by admfisher » 05 Jan 2003 07:49

Varjag,
"Question on the 'Narviks' - which, true to German philosophy attempted to squeeze a litre into a pint-bottle; how well did their hulls, machinery,valves and electrical systems stand up to the shock of more than 3-5 salvos of 6" before the ERA's had to run amok? Apart from their 'cruiser-guns' they were just the usual flimsy destroyer-hulls."

The Narviks used a high pressure steam type engine that relied on small tube boilers. This saved space weight and room but the technology was not perfect and the engines were quite unreliable.
The guns were not so much a problem when fired the ship handled it well, see the later ships with the twin turret forward. It was the weight of the gun and its mount on the small hull that had the habit of pushing the ships fore down or digging into waves instead of riding them. Thus the ships were also 'wet'.

admfisher
Grant

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Post by Galahad » 05 Jan 2003 10:15

Isn't it odd how the German naval turbines constantly gave problems? Given the success with Bremen and Europa, you'd think that particular engineering aspect wouldn't have been any problem at all.

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engines

Post by admfisher » 05 Jan 2003 11:14

The largest problem was that the Kriegsmarine was trying to make light ships under the restrictions of the various treaties.
The engines were a good idea up just before there time. In the long run they saved, space and gave decent power. The Narviks and other german dd's had a good turn of speed.

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:D

varjag
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Post by varjag » 05 Jan 2003 11:40

Galahad wrote:Isn't it odd how the German naval turbines constantly gave problems? Given the success with Bremen and Europa, you'd think that particular engineering aspect wouldn't have been any problem at all.
Galahad - I thought it wasn't so much the turbines themselves but the high-pressure boilers and associated ducting to turbines and then condensors that were problematic. Hence my previous question - about reliability when firing 6" guns - which makes the entire hull jerk - and after a few salvoes of that caliber - even cruisers tend to require 'running repairs' to keep everything functional.

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