Bismark Seamen

[Caldric]

Anyone have any information about why the Royal Navy left several hundred German Sailors to their fate after they sunk the Bismark? They saved about 100 I think and left the rest. Just wondering, have seen one or two things about German submarines closing in on the Royal Navy ships in the area.

Were there German Submarines in the area? I am not saying they just left the men in the water, but appears rather strange that they did not even give them a couple life boats or something.

[HJ Division Grenadier]

There were reports of U-boats in the area, with such a large amount of Royal Navy vessels in the region it was far too risky to stay, unfortuneatly.

[Dan]

There were about 800 survivors, and 120-130 or so saved. I agree about the life boats, but the Brits were not feeling so kindly about the Bismark after the Hood went down with 3 survivors.

[Erik E]

The same thing happened with Scharnhorst. In a documentary I have, some English sailors says thet the searchlights were turned off after a few minutes of searching. They had no idea why.........
I think there were 16 survivors from the Scharnhorst.

EE

[Takao]

I have to do some digging on the Bismarck. But, for the Scharnhorst:
IIRC their were 32 - 36 survivors. It was a night action of the North Cape, so the water would be extremely cold. Water that cold will kill a person within minutes(if not seconds). From the British accounts I have read, no one actually saw the Scharnhorst sink. Just a large smoke cloud with a dull red glow. At night, unless the sailors were properly equipped (ie in a lifeboat/raft or had some kind of light source) their chances of detection were next to nil. I can't recall the sea state, but I think it was somewhat rough.

All of those factors combined will result in very few survivors, no matter what the British effort to recover survivors was. The only way that I can see that would have prevented such a great loss of life would have been for the Scharnhorst to have been surrendered. Even scuttling the ship would not have ensured a large group of survivors.

[Karl da Kraut]

@ Dan

The HMS "Hood" exploded during the exchange with "Bismarck" and "Prinz Eugen". That's why there were only three survivors; not because the German ships didn't attempt to rescue the British sailors.

After the Bismarck went down, the RN units left the area due to a (false, but they couldn't know) U-Boat warning. A tough, but reasonable decision.[/i]

[Dan]

@ Dan

The HMS "Hood" exploded during the exchange with "Bismarck" and "Prinz Eugen". That's why there were only three survivors; not because the German ships didn't attempt to rescue the British sailors.

After the Bismarck went down, the RN units left the area due to a (false, but they couldn't know) U-Boat warning. A tough, but reasonable decision.[/i]

Yes, I never implied otherwise.

Regards

[Scott Smith]

I don't see why German U-Boats would have attacked ships engaged in a rescue operation for German sailors.

After a token rescue effort the British merrily sailed away. It was certainly deliberate.

[Matt Gibbs]

I'd be interested to know whether anyone ever asked the question to any U Boat captain, whether they would have attacked the vulnerable ships engaged in rescue operations, if they could torpedo passenger liners then why not..? Just a thought as to whether there might be some surviving opinions from the time period rather than good old 20/20 hindsight. Would an Air/Sea rescue launch in the channel be a legit target for a maurauding E-Boat..? Similar situation...

Regards

Matt Gibbs

[Caldric]

I don't see why German U-Boats would have attacked ships engaged in a rescue operation for German sailors.

After a token rescue effort the British merrily sailed away. It was certainly deliberate.

I do not know about deliberate, but the thing I can not understand is the survival gear. I mean sure they need their own gear, but each of the several warships just dropped a couple of life boats it could have saved hundreds.

The Crusiers could have went on, but what is the chance of a German Uboat attacking a couple of modern destroyers picking up their men? If not deliberate it sure as hell was a stupid move, or just cold blooded.

[Dan]

I don't see why German U-Boats would have attacked ships engaged in a rescue operation for German sailors.

After a token rescue effort the British merrily sailed away. It was certainly deliberate.

I do not know about deliberate, but the thing I can not understand is the survival gear. I mean sure they need their own gear, but each of the several warships just dropped a couple of life boats it could have saved hundreds.

The Crusiers could have went on, but what is the chance of a German Uboat attacking a couple of modern destroyers picking up their men? If not deliberate it sure as hell was a stupid move, or just cold blooded.

I cannot disagree with you.

[Davey Boy]

I don't blame the Brits for giving the Germans the arse when they thought that a U-boat was in the area.

You have to realize that these people didn't trust each other. And the Brits were certainly convinced that the Huns were capable of anything.

Would they (the Germans) sacrifice their own men just to get a couple of British ships? Maybe they would. The Brits didn't hang about waiting to find out. And I sure as hell wouldn't either.

And why didn't they drop them the lifeboats? Well, what if their ship got hit a few hours later, and they didn't have those boats because they left them with the Germans. Imagine what the British public would've done to the officer who gave that order. He'd be lynched in public.

A tough decision, maybe even a cold one, but an understandable one too.


Regards,

David

[paddywhack]

actuly u boats DID search for survivers, they picked up i think like 15 or so a few hours later,channel 4 did a very good documentey on the bismark and the hood,they interviewed a surviver who was picked by a u boat the next day mind you he his friend and another friend were on a peice of wreckage and out of the water so thats why they survived as long as they did,one other thing though there was one story of how a british officer saw a german sailer with no arms hanging onto a rope with his teeth!! and he jumped in and saved the guy so they did care about the survivers but the u boat thing we will never be known if there was one there or not! oh and the british officer was almost court marsheled i think they wanted to say he abondoned ship or something!! but nothing happened to him in the end

[HJ Division Grenadier]

Hetman has got it about right with his post.
You have to look at Britain postion at that stage of the war, to risk loosing the warships that were in the area would have benn disaterous for Britain and I agrre strongly it was the right thing to do.

[Scott Smith]

The Germans were condemned at Nuremberg for not rescuing survivors. Nevermind that when they did so with their U-boats, unlike a mighty surface fleet, they were extremely vulnerable. The British story that there might be U-boats present, and therefore only a token rescue could be made, is an extremely lame excuse. U-boats normally did not engage capital ships unless attacked anyway. They ALWAYS attacked freighters, including oceanliners (i.e., troopships), and they weren't going to impede any rescue efforts with thoughts of submarine suicide.