The Schnellebootewaffe And MAS Boats--General Discussion

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
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David C. Clarke
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The Schnellebootewaffe And MAS Boats--General Discussion

Post by David C. Clarke » 03 Dec 2005 18:21

Hi Guys!

Operating on the theory that most Threads are very specific in terms of the questions posed, I thought that perhaps we could have a general discussion on Schnellebootes, where all observations, questions and information about the force can be shared.

So, keep those cards and letters coming! If we do well, we might even earn a "sticky".

To start it off, does anyone have any information on Schnelleboote victories in the Baltic?


Best,
~D, the EviL
Last edited by David C. Clarke on 10 Dec 2005 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 01:27

So, in total, how many different types of Schnelleboats were used by Germany in WWII?

Gee, you guys are hard to kickstart..... :lol:


Best,
~D, the EviL

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 04 Dec 2005 01:41

David,

Prehaps these two posts from Arvo L. Vercamer that I have saved on my computer will be of interest and help get things started.

Arvo L. Vercamer wrote:Esteemed Sir M.K.;

Thank you very much for your personal e-mail re questions on technical
details of
German S-Boats. While I am certainly no expert on Schnellboote
(S-Boote); what you
refer to in British nomenclature as Enemy Boats (E-Boats); I shall try
to never-the-less
answer some of your questions. If you will permit me, I would like to
post my response
to you on this forum because I opine that others reading my humble
writings might be
able to provide you with more exacting data, or additional facts
regarding German
S-Boote efforts. Here then is an encapsulated text to your posed query.

BACKGROUND: In today?s navies, MTB?s certainly figure as a very
prominent factor
in the defensive strategies of many a nation. They certainly form an
integral part of the
navies bordering the Baltic Sea as well as the North Sea (the German Sea
for some of the
senior generations). Lesser powers, such as the Baltic States and
Finland have them, so
do the larger powers such as Germany, Poland, Russia and Sweden.

The history of MTB?s really starts with the invention and practical use
of the torpedo as
an offensive weapon; i.e. the late 1870?s to 1880?s. No sooner had the
torpedo been
developed, when someone came up with the idea of mounting them on
submersibles as
well as on smaller sized surface craft. In order to deliver their
payloads (the torpedo), the
delivery craft had to be relatively small, of sufficient speed and most
agile in
performance:

- Speed was critical if the MTB was to have any chance of maneuvering
safely in close
proximity to larger ships of war, deliver their torpedoes on target and
get out of Dodge as
quickly as possible;
- A small, but optimal size was critical because it would give the
defenders a very small
target to shoot at; and
- Agility went with size, for a small and agile vessel should have a
good chance in
dodging, if not escaping most moderate forms of counterfire.

Anyway, those were the basic theories as they existed by the turn of the
century.

It was not until the First World War that MTB?s really came of age (a
key limitation up
until then was the lack of adequate fuels for such vessels to be truly
successful - can?t
have a small boat, load it with coal, and hope to race it on the high
seas at 40 knots,
right?).

The first nation to successfully deploy MTB?s in to combat was Italy. In
the Italian navy,
the primary role of the first generation of MTB?s was to guard against
enemy submarine
attacks. It is rather ironic in that barely two months after Italy
entered the First World
War (25 May 1915) - Italy lost two armored cruisers within a 10 day
period to U-Boat
attacks. One of the ?post battle damage assessments? conducted by the
Italians
determined that not enough MTB?s were on hand to deter U-Boat attacks.
These two
losses served as the catalyst for the Italian MAS construction program
(MAS - Motoscarfi
anti sommergibili --- Motorboats for anti-submarine service). By war?s
end, Italy
operated approximately 200 MAS vessels - though in retrospect, Italy
truly did not need
them as both the French and the Italian fleets were more than sufficient
to keep the small
Austro-Hungarian at bay.

The Italian MAS boats of the First World War measured 48ft/16m in
length, were 9ft/3m
in width; their draft was approximately 3ft/1m fully loaded; they were
12 ton vessels.
Top speed was approximately 26 knots. Two gasoline engines with 500 hp
ea. provided
the power; one engine per screw.

Shortly after building the first series of anti-sub MAS vessels, the
Italian navy redesigned
these vessels and gave them more of an ?offensive? punch. The second
generation of
MAS boats now carried torpedoes on to the upper deck (on the upper decks
for weight
distribution considerations). One of the goals of the Italian navy was
to try and damage
the war ships of the Austro-Hungarian navy while the latter were still
in port. To gain an
extra ?stealth? factor for their attack, the Italians added two 5 hp.
battery powered
outboards for a number of the MAS vessels. The idea was to tow the MAS
boats close to
their target area; allow them to use their electro-motors to get real
close to the ships of
the Austro-Hungarian navy - and when they were within range (and
hopefully still
undetected), open up their main engines, deliver their torpedoes, and
retreat back to their
protection of the larger forces waiting off-shore.

The first such attack occurred on 02 November 1916. Regretfully, all of
the Italian
torpedoes malfunctioned, but the ships did return safely to their
Italian mother-ships.
Another attack took place during the night of 09 December 1917; MAS-9
successfully hit
the coastal armored-cruiser ?Wien?. On the night of 11 June 1918, MAS-15 and
MAS-21 sank the battleship ?Szent Istvan?. Of note is that the Italian
navy did not lose a
single boat during these attack efforts.

During the First World War, the Italian navy built 292 MAS vessels, of
which 32 were
lost in combat. The Italians proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that
small, but agile
vessels could neutralize capital ships and cause damage way out of size
to their relative
proportions.

Two other nations took up the use of MTB?s during the First World War -
Great Britain
and Germany, both of whom were greatly influenced by the Italians. Great
Britain, after
1916, developed its version of MTB?s, to be more precise, CMB?s (Coastal
Motor Boats).
Relatively short on success, these CMB?s were used against German ships
operating in
the North Sea as well as in mine-sweeping operations. Germany developed
two series of
7 ton MTB?s - the LM-Boote (leichte Motorboote - light motor-boats) and
the FL-Boote
(ferngelenkte Sprengboote - remote controlled explosive-charged boats).
As with the
Royal Navy, the German navy also did not enjoy great operational
successes with their
boats.

But the First World War did prove that the concept of MTB?s was a most
valid one.
Right after November of 1918, Great Britain sent in a naval squadron in
to the Baltic Sea
to help contain the Bolshevik revolution; a smaller British naval
presence was also
operating in the Black Sea. Thornycraft built CMB?s were also sent in to
the Baltic
theater of operations. On 17 September 1919, CMB-4 sank the Russian
cruiser ?Oleg?
not far from Kronstadt. One of the most famous uses of MTB?s was by the
Royal Navy
against the young Soviet Baltic Fleet based in Kronstadt in August of
1919. Modeled
after Italian attack principles, British CMB?s completed a successful
attack against
Kronstadt by damaging two Soviet battleships (Andreiy Pervosvanni and
Petropavlovsk)
and sinking a submarine mothership (Pamyat Asow). But the price was
high. Out of
eight attacking CMB?s (CMB-24; CMB-31; CMB-62; CMB-67; CMB-72; CMB-79;
CMB-86 and CMB-88), four were sunk while attacking, three further CMB?s
damaged
beyond repair - only one returned undamaged to the mothership
?Vindictive?. Two
British CMB?s were in fact captured by Bolshevik forces in the Black Sea.

After the First World War, most nations neglected to give the concept of
MTB?s much
further thought. Great Britain interestingly dropped the idea, though it
did build and
develop MTB?s for foreign contracts. France, but especially Italy, did
continue with the
development of the next generations of MTB?s.

The interwar period saw the development of MTB?s in to their own class
of ships. But
along the way, some design drawbacks and limitations quickly became
apparent. High
speeds also meant shorter operational endurance?s. Most of the MTB?s
developed during
the early interwar era were also of less optimal seaworthyness, another
negative (but that
should be expected from any ?first effort? developments).

One of the first nations to positively identify the offensive
capabilities of MTB?s was the
Soviet Union. In 1929, the Soviet Union possessed only five MTB?s. By
1939, she had
over 200 available for operational use. Interestingly, the aviation
enterprises of
?Shukovski? and ?Tupolev? were heavily involved in the design of the G-5
type MTB.
Britain too build a number of MTB?s, but as a whole, the British boats
were better suited
for coastal actions and their average speeds were far below their German
counterparts;
though the British MTB?s were much more heavily armed.

GERMAN S-BOOTE: Germany?s start in the S-Boat business began back in 1875 as
Friedrich Luerssen began a business in Bremen-Vegesack to build steam
engines for
commercial use. By the early 1900?s, Friederich Luerssen and his son
Otto (who now ran
the company), were building high speed marine grade racing engines.
Attempts were
made by Luerssen to modify their civilian racers for military use, but
the extra weight
considerations demanded by the addition of military hardware neutralized
any advantages
the ?civilian? Luerssen racers may have had. Luerssen was able to
continue with its
shipbuilding efforts after the war; building high speed luxury sports
cruisers for wealthy
Americans. Be that as it may, Luerssen did construct a number or
FL-Boats for the
German Navy after August of 1914.

Germany?s first FL-Boote were deployed in Zeebruegge, Belgium, during
February of
1915. They were supposed to conduct attacks against British monitors
operating in the
area because the Belgian coast was too shallow for submarine operations.
In 1916,
Germany also sent two FL-14 and FL-15 to Kurland, in Latvia, where they
operated off of
the Estonian Island of Saaremaa (Oesel). In total, 17 FL-Boote were
built by the German
navy by Luerssen. FL-14?s engine exploded on 25 January 1917 off of the
Kurland coast.
On 01 April 1918, FL-15 disappeared somewhere in the Gulf of Riga. Both
of these
unmanned vessels were being operated via remote control (radio).

Luerssen of Vegesack, Naglo of Berlin and Ortiz of Hamburg also
constructed a number
of manned ?speed boats? for the German navy. The first generation of
German military
?Schnellboote? were adaptations of civilian racing boat designs. But, it
did not take long
to realize that the modified civilian MTB?s were less than optimal
solutions for wartime
needs. Thus, the above companies were contracted to build speedboats
suitable for
military operations. By war?s end in 1918, 23 LM-Boote had been built -
though per
contract, 33 boats were to have been delivered.

Operationally, the LM-Boats were used in Flanders and in the Baltic Sea.
In the Baltic
Sea, the Germans sent the MTB mothership ?Inkula? to operate with a
number of
LM-Boats from their main base in Riga, Latvia. They were assigned to conduct
hit-and-run mission against Imperial Russian vessels operating in the
Gulf of Riga up to
the southern shores of the Estonian Island archipelago. In October of
1917, the ?Inkula?
exploded under unknown circumstances in the Gulf of Riga. In all
probability, she must
have hit a mine. This essentially shut down the German LM-Boat
operations in the Gulf
of Riga.

In 1922, the German navy ordered a young Oberleutnant zur See Ruge to
work on
developing German MTB?s for the next war. Thorough in his work, he also
worked
closely with Luerssen to complete his assigned tasks.

By 1926, a small German S-Boot Flotilla was operational; utilizing for
the most part
surplus LM-Boote as well as a number of now completed LM-Boats which were
supposed to be built in 1917/1918. Evaluations and tests concluded that
the designs of
the First World War were not sufficient if the LM-Boote were to become
successful
maritime weapons. A totally new design and new combat principles would
be needed by
the German navy. For cover purposes, the LM-Boats were re-designated as
UZ-Boote
(U-Boot-Zerstoerer) in German military parlance and S-Boote
(Schnellboote) for civilian
consumption.

By 1929, Luerssen had unveiled a new generation of S-Boats. It was
derived from the
civilian ?Oheka II? yacht which Luerssen built for an American. The
basic design of the
first German S-Boot was retained throughout the Second World War by the
German
S-Boat forces. These boats were quite seaworthy, they were able to take
a fair amount of
punishment (both wear-and-tear and combat) and they were fast (34 knots
for the S-1;
higher for further models). The initial batch of S-Boats had an
operational limit of 700
nautical miles; but they were also equipped with diesel engines. Future
designs improved
on all operational aspects. Early tests also showed that the MAN
designed diesels were
not nearly as reliable as the Daimler-Benz ones. S-1 to S-17 were
more-or-less intended
as ?proof of concept? boats; but S-18 and beyond were intended for
nothing but combat
use. From the very start, the S-Boote were armed with two 53cm torpedoes
(plus an
additional two 53cm torpedoes in reserve). The 700 series boats built in
1944/45 could
fire all four of their fish in one salvo if required. Another excellent
design feature was
their overall low siluette which greatly reduced their RADAR signature.

On 16 March 1932, the term S-Boot became the official designation for
German MTB?s.
By 01 September 1939, two S-Boot Flotillas were in existence with the
Kriegsmarine.
The Z-Plan in called for the construction of at least 302 S-Boote,
minepsweepers and
mine-layers by 1948 - not really a large number of S-Boote when all was
said and done.
But in typical German planning of the period, much thought was given to
the topic.

In 1940, a re-design of the deck and hull regions took place. The
torpedo launch tubes
were now integrated in to the hull of the ship. This had the effect of
lifting the bow of
the boat up by approximately 1.5ft/50cm which improved the stability of
the vessel at all
speeds.

The S-Boote can be divided in to distinct construction groups:

-- Group S1 (1930)
-- Group S2 (1932)
-- Group S6 (191933-34)
-- Group S10 (1934-35)
-- Group S14 (1936-38)
-- Group S18 (1938-39)
-- Group S26 (1940)
-- Group S30 (1939-41)
-- Group S38 (1939-43)
-- Group S100 (1943-45)
-- Group S700 (1944-45)

German S-Boats operated in the Baltic Sea, the Black Sea, the North Sea,
the English
Channel and in the Mediterranean Sea from 01 September 1939 to 09 May
1945. In
total, 249 S-Boote were built, 159 were lost or scuttled and 92 survived
the war. Without
a doubt, the German S-Boats far exceeded the capabilities of their
Allied counterparts for
they sank more enemy shipping than all other MTB?s combined.

As a quick side note, the Germans also deployed an 80-ton hydrofoil, the
VS-8 for
military use. This weight record for hydrofoils was not broken until
1968. The VS-8 was
designed to travel from Sicily to Libya and back in one night traveling
at a speed of 40
knots - purpose: to speedily supply Rommel and the AK. This too is a
most fascinating
topic for study.

As your question centered around German S-Boat design questions and
principles; I shall
limit this posting to just that - tech talk. Ample materials exist re
S-Boote ?im Einsatz?;
one need only look in the right places.

Thank you for the honor of your time. Regards, Arvo L. V.

References:

Deutscher Marinekalender 1969; Deutscher Militaerverlag Berlin, 1968
German Naval Vessels of WW2; A.D. Baker; Naval Institute Press,
Annapolis, MD,
1993; ISBN 1-55750-304-4
Schnellboote in Einsatz; Volkmar Kuehn; Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart;
1986; ISBN
3-87943-450-6
Conway?s All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1922-1946; Mayflower Books Inc;
NY, NY;
1980; ISBN 0-8317-0303-2
32nd Parallel Models; Pismo Beach, CA; 1986


Arvo L. Vercamer wrote:Esteemed Sir;

Regarding your query on the type of armaments carried on S-Boote; I
offer the following
for your consideration:

S-1 - 2xTorp; 1x20mm
S-2-5 - 2xTorp; 1x20mm
S-6-9 - 2xTorp; 1x20mm
S-10-13 - 2xTorp; 1x20mm
S-14-17 - 4xTorp; 1x20mm
S-18-25 - 4xTorp; 1x20mm
S-26-29 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-30-37 - 2xTorp; 2x20mm
S-38-53 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-54-61 - 2xTorp; 2x20mm
S-62-80 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-81-83 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm
S-84-97 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-98-99 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm
S-100 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm
S-101-133 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-134-135 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-136 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-137 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-138-146 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-147-150 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm
S-151-158 - 2xTorp; 1x15mm; 1x20mm
S-159-166 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm (proposed, boats not built)
S-167-186 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-187-194 - 4xTorp; 2x20mm
S-195-200 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm; 2xMG34
S-201-202 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm; 2xMG34
S-203-218 - 4xTorp; 1x40mm; 1x20mm; 2xMG34
S-219-228 - 4xTorp; 6x30mm
S-229-300 (proposed, boats not built)
S-301-307 - 4xTorp; 6x30mm
S-308-500 (proposed, boats not built)
S-701-709 - 4xTorp; 6x30mm
S-710-800 (proposed, boats not built)

Hope this helps. Thank you and regards. Arvo L. V.

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 01:55

Excellent, excellent Marcus!!!

There are really so many interesting facets of the S-Boote history to explore! For instance, Germany managed to transfer S-Bootes by canal entirely through occupied France to get them to the Mediterranean. She also managed to transfer S-Bootes to the Danube, in order to use them in the Black Sea! Italy transported a number of her MAS boats by land to the Danube for the same purpose. And, there appears to have been a Japanese series of boats that were built to a German S-Boote design!

I think all of these topics and more are fair game for this Thread!

So Guys, follow in Marcus' wake (pun intended!:D) and please post your thoughts and questions!

Best Regards,
David

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Post by panzerkrieg » 04 Dec 2005 06:08

Marcus,brilliant thanks for sharing

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Post by Davide Pastore » 04 Dec 2005 08:55

The S-boote were also exported and copied abroad.


Bulgaria had five boats (F1-5) ordered in Germany in 1938. The first four were delivered in 1939 but the last one was commandeered by Kriegsmarine at war start and became S1, the type progenitor (according to Conway's 1922-1946, which however shows two slightly different technical specs for F1 and T1). Further boats were to be built in Bulgaria, but none was begun.


Spain had ten transferred (S 2-5 became LT 11-14 in 1936; S73, 78, 124, 125, 126, 145 became LT 21-26 in 1943) plus Spanish-built but German-designed LT 27-32, based on S-boote but enlarged up to 120t. Some of the latter lasted in service up to 1977-78.


Japan built a very similar boat (but with weaker engines) as "Type A" or "T51" class (Nos 10-27, Nos 5441-5458, only the first 8 completed).
I distinctly recall having read somewhere that the S-boote hull dimensions were unsuited to Pacific wave length, but I was unable to locate the source. Maybe I am mistaken.


Eight boats of Type S.2 were built for Yugoslavia as:
- Orjen
- Velebit
- Dinara
- Triglav
- Suvobor
- Rudnik
- Kajmackalan
- Durmitor
With armament: 2x 550mm TT, 1x 40/43, 1x 15/38, 12x ASW bombs

The first six were taken over by Regia Marina in 1941 (the last two escaping to Alexandria and serving with the Allies during the war. Stricken in 1963) as Mas 3D-8D (later, MS 41-46), with 2x 20/65 as gun armament on the first four [MAS = "Motoscafo Armato Silurante", MS = "MotoSilurante"].

Italy had previously asked to Big German Friend for some S-boote (either as a transfer, or building license) but nothing came of it until too late (possibly, out of industrial rivalry between respective national firms... :? ). So, after the capture of the boats above, Italy copyed them in 36 units (MS 11-16, MS 21-26, MS 31-36, MS 51-56, MS 61-66, MS 71-76, plus 44 other boats ordered in 1943, plus [at last! :? ] 9 licensed copies of German S-38s also ordered in 1943).

From MS 51 on there were two additional 450mm torpedoes on deck aft.
MS 74 and MS 75 were specially modified for X Flottiglia MAS as human torpedo motherships, carrying two S.L.C. or other various SpecOp crafts.

Additionally, from the same Orjen class Italy derived also the VAS ["Vedetta AntiSommergibile"] boats (VAS 201-248, VAS 301-312, plus 24 other boats ordered in 1943) with 2x 450mm, 2x 20/65, 30x ASW bombs, smaller engines for only 18-21 knots, somewhat akin to R-boote and intended for ASW escrt work.

A number of both types were taken over by Kriegsmarine after 1943.
In 1948-49 some survivors, having been returned to previous owners, were handed over to France and USSR as war reparation. Of those remaining in Italian service, MS 54 and 55 (by now renamed MS 474 and 481) were discarded only in 1978.

Davide

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Post by Davide Pastore » 04 Dec 2005 12:31

Davide Pastore wrote:Bulgaria had five boats (F1-5) ordered in Germany in 1938. The first four were delivered in 1939 but the last one was commandeered by Kriegsmarine at war start and became S1, the type progenitor (according to Conway's 1922-1946, which however shows two slightly different technical specs for F1 and T1). Further boats were to be built in Bulgaria, but none was begun.


Precisation: It dawned upon me about the oddity of naming a boot S-1 in 1939, while S-2 had been transferred to Spain in 1936.

Pasted below is what Conway's has to do about these boats, verbatim:

Bulgaria [page 363]
S2 Type MTBs (launched 1939)
Class: F1-F4
Four MTBs ordered before the war from Lürssen, Vegesack. A fifth boat of this class remained in Germany and was renamed S1.

Germany [page 248]
S1 (built 1930)
Built by Lürssen, Vegesack. Sold to Spain 1938.

Spain [page 404]
(nothing at all about former S1)

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ ... index.html
The four S-Boats of the Schnellboot 1931 class [=> S2-5 class] were the first small class of S-boats build by the German navy after World War I. Roughly based on the prototype boat S1 , they were mainly used as testbeds to further develop this kind of boats.

Any suggestion?

Davide

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 17:41

Excellent series of Posts, Davide!!!! :D :D :D

You wrote:

Japan built a very similar boat (but with weaker engines) as "Type A" or "T51" class (Nos 10-27, Nos 5441-5458, only the first 8 completed).
I distinctly recall having read somewhere that the S-boote hull dimensions were unsuited to Pacific wave length, but I was unable to locate the source. Maybe I am mistaken.


As one who is constantly forgetting where I read something, I sympathize. In this case, your memory is most correct! This statement was made on Page 155 of the English edition of "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945", by Hansgeorg Jentschura, Dieter Jung and Peter Mickel:

"This type, known as 'Type A Ro-gata' was based on German schnelleboot plans, and were intended to act as division boats. Not a success as they suffered from structural weakness and were the wrong length for the Pacific waves."

Thanks again for posting, I hope to hear more from you! :D

Best Regards,
David

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Post by Davide Pastore » 04 Dec 2005 17:49

David C. Clarke wrote:"Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945"


Bingo! I read it there. Beautiful book.

Davide

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 18:13

Yes Davide, wonderful book! By sheer coincidence I was reading that section yesterday, although I knew that the Japanese didn't have much luck with motor torpedo boats.


Best Regards,
David

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 23:12

Ah Davide, interesting little mystery about S1,

Acording to my source, S1 was the UZ16, a gas powered boat built by Lursen and delivered to the Reichsmarine on August 7, 1930. She was renamed W1 on March 31, 1931, according to Dallies-Labourdette. She became S1 in March, 1932. Subsequently, she was sold to Spain in 1936 and became Badajoz . According to the same book, S2, S3, S4 and S5 were sold to Spain at the same time, S2 becoming Falange . But here is where the mystery deepens-- in the same book, "S-Boote", on page 22, there is a note that says:

"These boats, with the exception of S1, were sold to Franco's navy with the S6 at the end of 1937."

The note refers to a reference in the text to S1--S5. So, the book contradicts itself! :o

Best,
David

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Post by Davide Pastore » 04 Dec 2005 23:29

David C. Clarke wrote:
she was sold to Spain in 1936 and became Badajoz .
were sold to Franco's navy with the S6 at the end of 1937."


The Conway's doesn't list a Badajoz in the Spanish Navy, nor the tranfer of S6.
S2 => LT11 or Falange
S3 => LT12 or Oviedo
S4 => LT13 or Requite
S5 => LT14 or Toledo

Davide

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Post by David C. Clarke » 04 Dec 2005 23:52

Hi Davide, check this page, (along with what is probably the best internet site on Schnellebootes):

http://www.prinzeugen.com/Armada.htm


Best,
David

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Davide Pastore
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Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Post by Davide Pastore » 05 Dec 2005 06:32

Well, it is by sure more reliable than Conway's.

Moreover, I at last checked an Italian book about MTBs which I've initially skipped, and it said:

S 1 (1st) - former W.1, UZ(S)16 - handed over to Spain in 1936 (S 1 Type)
S 1 (2nd) - former F.5 - building for the Bulgaria in 1939, commandeered, and subsequently handed over again to Bulgaria (S 2 Type)
S 2-5 (1st) - handed over to Spain 1938 (S 2 Type)
S 2-5 (2nd) - former Italian boats, former Orjen-class Yugoslavian boats (S 2 type)


The site prinzeugen etc. says instead:

One of the early boats built by Lurssen from the S-7 plans for export to the Bulgarian Navy. (Courtesy Lurssen)


Davide

Jan-Hendrik
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Joined: 11 Nov 2004 12:53
Location: Hohnhorst / Deutschland

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 05 Dec 2005 08:19

For technical aspects there exists an excellent book by Harald Fock :

"Die deutschen Schnellboote 1914-1945"


By the way , german, finnisch and italian S-Boote fought even on Lake Ladoga !

Jan-Hendrik

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