The Schnellebootewaffe And MAS Boats--General Discussion

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
varjag
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Post by varjag » 05 Sep 2006 10:51

Andreas wrote:Leaving from Helgoland knocks another 40-50 miles off the journey distance.

All the best

Andreas

Exactly my reflection when I read 'Helgoland' in stril's post......someone was trying to preserve fuel...As for the speed of 18 knots - this was obviously a Kriegsmarine 'task force' - NOT escorting transports....Varjag

Wargames
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Post by Wargames » 17 Nov 2006 07:45

I understand Germany transferred a flotilla of S boats to the Mediteranean. When did this happen? How many boats? What were their specifications?

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Feuerjager
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Post by Feuerjager » 17 Nov 2006 12:19

Wargames wrote:I understand Germany transferred a flotilla of S boats to the Mediteranean. When did this happen? How many boats? What were their specifications?


First Flotilla - 3rd FLOTILLA - arrived at La Spezia on Nov. 18, 1941.

BOATS: S55, S35, S61, S31, S34, S56, S54, S57, S58 & S59

All boats were of the smaller S30 Class. These were picked because of their smaller beam than the S38 Class as their route to Italy took them down the Rhine canal system.

Second Flotilla - 7th FLOTILLA - arrived in La Spezia by Oct. 8, 1942.

BOATS: S151 through S158

These were all special built Guesto, Schiedam- built S-Boats - smaller than the S38 Class - designed to fit through the inland waterway system in Souther Germany.

Source: German Coastal Forces of WW2 by M.J. Whitley

SPECIFICATIONS

Image

Image
Source: Squadron/Signal Schnellboot in Action

Hope this helps. :wink:

<S>!
Last edited by Feuerjager on 17 Nov 2006 12:45, edited 1 time in total.

varjag
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Post by varjag » 17 Nov 2006 12:28

They also operated a number of LS-boats (Leichte Schnellboote) in the Adriatic and Greek islands, Varjag

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Feuerjager
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Post by Feuerjager » 17 Nov 2006 12:51

varjag wrote:They also operated a number of LS-boats (Leichte Schnellboote) in the Adriatic and Greek islands, Varjag


NOTE: Like Varjag said - this only covers the S-Boats - not the LS Boats or R-Boats in the area.

Also this list only covers the units when they operated in the Western & Southern Med. This does not include boats and units that operated in the Adriatic and Aegean and the Eastern Med.

<S>!

Wargames
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Post by Wargames » 17 Nov 2006 22:07

Thank you, A. Fraize. You now have me interested in LS and R boat histories as well as in the whole Mediteranean prior to Italy's surrender.

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Feuerjager
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Post by Feuerjager » 17 Nov 2006 22:19

Wargames wrote:Thank you, A. Fraize. You now have me interested in LS and R boat histories as well as in the whole Mediteranean prior to Italy's surrender.


If so look around and find the following book:

GERMAN COASTAL FORCES IN WORLD WAR II
By M.J. Whitley

Try Motorbooks International - you can find it on the net and ask for the free military book catolog.

This book has information on the different classes of S, LS, & R Boats as well as the K-Verband vessels as well as their operations in WW2. It is worth it's weight in gold.

<S>!

Silent 7th
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Post by Silent 7th » 19 Nov 2006 06:13

Good luck.
I've been looking for a copy within my price range for some time.
Publishers seem to keep both Whitley and Friedman's battleship titles in print, whilst allowing their small combatant titles to lapse.
Pity.

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Feuerjager
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Post by Feuerjager » 19 Nov 2006 16:23

Wargames wrote:Thank you, A. Fraize. You now have me interested in LS and R boat histories as well as in the whole Mediteranean prior to Italy's surrender.


POSTSCRIPT: Here is the information on the other units operating in the MED. though by the time they became operational it was mostly limited to the Adriatic and Aegean Seas.

24th FLOTILLA: Formed November 1943 at Athens, Greece.
ex-Italian MAS Boats
ex-Yugoslavian Lurssen Boats

21st FLOTILLA: Became operational in Theater March 1944.
LS Type Boats
KS Type Boats

also

22nd FLOTILLA: Became operational in Theater August 1944. Seconded to the 11th Sicherungsdivision - Did not become part of the S-Boat Force. Eventually turned over to the Croat Navy.
KS Boats: KS11, KS18, KS20, KS24, KS31 & KS32

I can give you boat numbers on the 24th & 21st Flottila's if you need them but it is a long list. Would be easier to copy the pages and send them to you. Let me know if you need them.
(Source: German Costal Forces of WW2 by M.J. Whitley)

Also.....specs similar to above post for the LS CLASS BOATS:
(Source: Squadron/Signal Schnellboot in action)

Image

Hope this helps you out. Always willing to help a fellow interested in the S-Bootwaffe. :wink:

andrus
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Post by andrus » 19 Nov 2006 20:21

Hello,

who can review following new book ?

Hans Frank: Die deutschen Schnellboote im Einsatz (von den Anfängen bis 1945)
http://www.dmkn.de/1779/ruestung.nsf/cc/WEBS-6V3KDT

and how this one compares to Hümmelchen's book (which i don't own unfortunately)

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ourbill
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Post by ourbill » 20 Dec 2006 22:17

The following extract from http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de is in relation to an action involving the 2 British MLs. One of the MLs sank was I think ML1069. Can anyone confirm this? or point me in the direction were I can find more information on the action off Tubruk.

20.– 21.6.1942
Mittelmeer
Am 20.6. wird Tobruk durch das dt. Afrika-Korps eingenommen.
Unternehmen der 3. S-Fl. (Kptlt. Kemnade) mit S 36, S 54, S 55, S 56, S 58 und S 59 von Derna aus gegen aus Tobruk flüchtende brit. Schiffe. 21.6.: Im Gefecht wird der südafrikan. Hilfsminensucher Parktown (250 BRT) versenkt, S 58 (Oblt. Geiger †) schwer beschädigt. Außerdem 1 Motorsegler und 6 LCS sowie 2 ML versenkt oder aufgebracht. S 55 (Oblt. Weber) kapert LCT 150 (296 ts).

david HMAS Sydney
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LS-3 Schnellboot

Post by david HMAS Sydney » 02 Jan 2007 04:33

Hello All,

Was the LS-3 Scnellboot torpedo capable ?

Kind Regards from AUS.

David Angwin.

varjag
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Re: LS-3 Schnellboot

Post by varjag » 02 Jan 2007 04:57

david HMAS Sydney wrote:Hello All,

Was the LS-3 Scnellboot torpedo capable ?

Kind Regards from AUS.

David Angwin.


I believe she was, seemed little point in sending a 'mine-layer' with the KORMORAN, Varjag

http://forummarine.forumactif.com/ftopi ... oot-LS.htm

varjag
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Re: LS-3 Schnellboot

Post by varjag » 02 Jan 2007 13:17

david HMAS Sydney wrote:Hello All,

Was the LS-3 Scnellboot torpedo capable ?

Kind Regards from AUS.

David Angwin.


Struck me that u might pursuing some idea that LS-3 was launched, pursued - and sunk HMS Sydney???? Not on mate, not on!

david HMAS Sydney
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LS-3 Scnellboot torpedo capability

Post by david HMAS Sydney » 02 Jan 2007 13:50

Hello Mr Varjag,

Don't be alarmed.

I know the LS-3 wasn't used against the HMAS Sydney.

Detmers was a Strong Man.

Hard and Fair.
--------------------------------

There may be a 'missing' JD5 Class Submarine wreck off Dirk Hartog Island .

Not far from the 112 and 26 Intersection.

The HSK Kormorans original staging position.

My theory is that Detmers sunk the 'attendant axis submarine ' the next afternoon [ 20th November 1941 ] , for the unauthorised sinking of the distressed Sydney and elimination of her Crew.

He had a Legal and Moral right to do so.

Unfortunatly, the [ I-67 ?] may have been ordered to do so outside of Detmers localised Command.

Perhaps they should have informed him.

RAN and AUS FED GOV told to await a Declaration of War , or an Notification of Intent regarding the Matter by Allied Command.

It appears that the loss of 645 Australians probably wasn't enough to re-start WW2 with the Entry of Japan and the US.

What was at Stake , was the Total Destruction of the British Empire.

It looks like the UK lost the Sydney.

It appears the RAN never lost Her.

It appears that as part of the day by day wait for a Declaration; the bodies were temporarily burried.

What a mess.

----------------------------------------------

Was the LS-3 Scnellboot torpedo capable ?

It appears the answer is yes.

Kind Regards from AUS.

David Angwin.

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