Number of Dead people in Hisroshima and Nagasaki?

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
ChristopherPerrien
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#31

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 30 Jun 2003, 19:32

But the ethical question still standing is: why was not the 1st launch on Tokjo Harbour performed as ULTIMATUM?

They only had two bombs , wasting one would be a stupid idea.

Macathur's idea was shot down primarily , because if the bomb did not work and the if the Japanese were told to watch a dud , what would that have done for the resolve of either side. And then we would only have one bomb to impress them. Besides did the fire raids impress them? Any reasonable idiot would have surrendered then.

Do you understand what overkill and redundancy are when it comes to the strategy of nuclear weapons ?

We could have dropped it IN Tokyo bay, now that would have impressed them! A 500ft wall of water would have done nicely. Why burn'em when you can drown'em :lol:

Ethical? Why the hell did the Japs not declare war several hours before Pearl Harbor ? I doubt it would have made any difference.
Also, remember the Japanese because of their "religion" had no type of western ethics.

Manhattan project was performed authomatically by the techno-military leadership without any political, ethical, moral control
Of which Truman was CinC.

Golly Gabriel, read Eisenhower's presidential farewell speech.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presi ... wer001.htm

gabriel pagliarani
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#32

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 01 Jul 2003, 04:26

Eh, no Christophe!
There were 3 bombs, not 2. The test of Alamogordo was exhaustive, about failure risks in detonation. Note that some risks are still working because A-bomb works in statistical manner, not deterministic, by mean of Heisemberg's Indetermination Law. Ignition could happen or not at very today if a modern W250 bomb is launched.. there is a "built in" alea in nukes.
Tsunami is a jap word: one of the things they fear mostly. I never thought that a demo in Tokjo Bay had to be less lethal and Mac Arthur was not a stupid like Takao thought and his strategy in Pacific was excellent. The same thing I couldn't say about the weak leadership of Eisenhower in ETO and if I well remember, wasn't Eisenhower surprised by Soviet missiles launched during 1957's Geophysical Year? 8) ..this was his last strategical error.
If CinC means unadequate to the role (?), Truman was CinC, but surely less than President Eisenhower was.
More other US Presidents? :roll:


ChristopherPerrien
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#33

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 01 Jul 2003, 06:09

I like Ike!

I am sorry you don't like most US presidents , neither do I. Ike redeemed hinself with this speech. I know he wasn't a great commander but he was good enough, and the speech I mentioned redeemed his character to me."The common man", not the general , or the president , the man he was.

"Dugout Doug" was a traitor, I will not speak of him. Read John Costello, "Days of Infamy", tell me what you think.

Truman had ultimate power, seriously he commanded more firepower than any other man in history outside of Atomic weapontry, and he did end the war with a minimum of casualties for both sides.

Bombs can still fail , and I can tell you know that in the field of nuclear weapons , it is triple redundancy not double redundancy.

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Takao
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#34

Post by Takao » 01 Jul 2003, 07:55

Gentlemen please,

A "demonstration drop" was not "Dugout Doug"'s idea. MacArthur was only informed about the existance of the bomb 5 days(or so) before it was dropped. The idea was dicussed by the Interim Committee at length during May 1945. It was turned down because of the reasons I have already presented. Most, if not all, of MacArtur's writings are post-Hiroshima. So enough with MacArthur already, he was never in the picture when it came to deciding what to do with the Atomic bombs.

Given the choice, I would sooner be the target of "Little Boy" and wondering IF, the one of today's crowd-pleasers and wondering WHEN.

For the record, I don't think MacArthur stupid. I admire his island-hopping campaign in the Pacific, and for what he did in Japan after the war, But I don't like the man. Kimmel and Short were crucified because their commands were devastated when attacked without prior warning. However, MacArthur knew that the war had begun well in advance of any Japanese attack, and he did NOTHING! His forces which he had some 5-6 years to form were soldiers in name only. He was more intent on keeping the Philippines out of the war, then getting US forces into it, and the Phillipines were lost becuase of it. All the plans he had intricately made before the war, he never acted upon once it began.
Sorry, but i digress, rant over.

As for the Presidents, I think FDR & Truman were two of the best we ever had. As for Ike, I don't have a strong opinion for, I'm neither pro nor con.

But again, We are digressing from the topic at hand.

Maybe one of you two would care to start something up either in the Lounge or the Non WW1/WW2 forums.

gabriel pagliarani
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#35

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 01 Jul 2003, 12:19

ChristopherPerrien wrote:I like Ike!"Dugout Doug" was a traitor, I will not speak of him. Read John Costello, "Days of Infamy", tell me what you think.
Costello was condamned by US justice for those infamous calumnias. I cannot support any more further discussions about this argument: an opinable matter is my own opinion about 2 US Presidents, another thing is an infamous calumnia towards an US military leader, a legend. I stop here.

ChristopherPerrien
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#36

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 01 Jul 2003, 19:16

Costello was condamned by US justice for those infamous calumnias
Do you have any links for this? I would be interested in reading them.
Actually Costello never calls Macarthur a traitor , I do. Still I am always interested in questions of validity of "reliable" sources.

Since neither one of us wants to talk about it , Should we start a Topic? :lol:

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