Some questions about the Manchukuo Navy

[Akira Takizawa]

> So these ships were flying Manchukuo flag at sea

I don't know if Manchukuo flag was used as merchant flag. But, probably so.

> and their registration was Dalian?

Yes

> Is there some article or website where I can read about the history of Dairen Kisen?

There is no good site, though.
http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~travel-100y ... de_074.htm

Taki

[Hama]

Alright, well I will keep looking to see if I can find any more. Thanks.

[Eugen Pinak]

There were some shipping companies in Manchukuo. But, they were established by Japanese capital and managed by Japanese. The major company was Dairen Kisen and it had following ships.
http://jpnships.g.dgdg.jp//company/dair ... i_list.htm

Though their nationality was Manchukuo technically, they were actually Japanese ships and some were employed by Japanese Navy during the Pacific War.

Taki, are you sure about this? I've always thought, that "Dairen KK" was a Japanese company and all its' ships were included in Japanese shipping register.

[Akira Takizawa]

It is not sure that all ships of Dairen Kisen were registered at Dalian. But, as far as I checked, they were registerd at Dalian as below.

http://www.geocities.jp/tokusetsukansen ... 0XAO12.htm
http://www.geocities.jp/tokusetsukansen ... 12_004.htm

Taki

[Eugen Pinak]

It is not sure that all ships of Dairen Kisen were registered at Dalian. But, as far as I checked, they were registerd at Dalian as below.

Indeed, but Dalian/Dairen at that time was a Japanese territory, so any company and ship, registered there, were officially Japanese.
Also call-signs of all company ships' were Japanese, as they begun with "J". For example, when this Japanese ship was transferred to Manchou Digo, it received new call sign, starting with "M": http://www.geocities.jp/tokusetsukansen ... 05_013.htm

[Akira Takizawa]

Dalian was not a Japanese territory, but leased to Japan. China, later Manchukuo held sovereignty over it. So, the nationality of ship or company registered at Dalian was not Japan, but Manchukuo.

Taki

[Akira Takizawa]

I researched more.

According to the following article, a ship registered at Dalian was able to be Japanese ship, if it was owned by the company managed by Japanese. It hoisted a Japanese flag and its international affairs were in charge of the Japanese Government.

https://www.spf.org/opri-j/projects/inf ... 110_2.html

So, most ships registered at Dalian would be in the Japanese nationality.

Taki

[Eugen Pinak]

I researched more.

According to the following article, a ship registered at Dalian was able to be Japanese ship, if it was owned by the company managed by Japanese. It hoisted a Japanese flag and its international affairs were in charge of the Japanese Government.

https://www.spf.org/opri-j/projects/inf ... 110_2.html

So, most ships registered at Dalian would be in the Japanese nationality.

Taki

Taki - thank you. I had no idea, that this question was so complicated.

[Akira Takizawa]

Yes, it was very complicated. I did not imagine that a ship registered at Dalian was able to be Japanese ship.

Taki

[Hama]

It is strange to me that, like we discovered, most merchant ships registered in that area were Japanese and that Manchukuo doesn't seem to have had much of a merchant fleet for itself. The goal of Japan was to help build Manchukuo in to a modern industrialised state (and at least nominally independent), so I would have guessed that part of that plan would involve setting up some shipping companies for Manchukuo itself and maybe donating a few ships (like they did for the Navy and Maritime Police) so Manchukuo could conduct its own shipping like any other state with a coast.

But it seems that didn't happen? Instead of building a separate merchant fleet for Manchukuo, they just ran commerce through Japanese ships?

[Akira Takizawa]

> maybe donating a few ships

Donate them to who? To Chinese in Manchuria? Merchant ships are civilian ships and cannot be owned by Government like warship.

Taki

[Hama]

Manchukuo government had investment in many civilian companies (for example the Chinese Eastern Railway and the Dowa Automobile Company), and the Japanese of course had strong influence over the Manchukuo government. It would not be that hard to fund the creation of a domestic Manchukuo shipping company and then arrange for it to purchase some old ships from one of the Japanese firms.

[Eugen Pinak]

Yes, it was very complicated. I did not imagine that a ship registered at Dalian was able to be Japanese ship.

Taki

Indeed, status of Guandong leased territory and companies, established there, was rather murky for me. Thanks to the link you've provided I'm able to clarify this question a bit.

[Eugen Pinak]

Manchukuo government had investment in many civilian companies (for example the Chinese Eastern Railway and the Dowa Automobile Company), and the Japanese of course had strong influence over the Manchukuo government. It would not be that hard to fund the creation of a domestic Manchukuo shipping company and then arrange for it to purchase some old ships from one of the Japanese firms.

But why would Japanese do it? Those companies you've mentioned, they were used by the Japanese to exploit Manchuria. But why Japanese would create Manchurian competitor to their shipping companies?

[Hama]

Because their goal in Manchuria was to create a system of industrial self-reliance. They wanted Manchukuo to become a powerhouse that could function on its own (and send resources to Japan) so Japan wouldn't have to spend lots of it's own resources propping it up.

If they helped create a domestic shipping company that could function on it's own, it would give Manchukuo further self-reliance from Japanese funding and free-up Japanese ships to focus on other areas of the Empire. Manchukuo ships would probably have been discharging most goods in Japanese ports anyway, so it's not like the Japanese economy would lose out on resources from Manchuria. As the Pacific War progressed and more Japanese civilian ships were being requisitioned by the Navy, Manchukuo ships could have provided a reserve for continuing the commercial trade routes (at least until Allied navies cut off activity in the area).

It would also (at least theoretically) help further the appearance of Manchukuo's independence as a separate state in the eye of the international community. It would look better if there were Manchukuo ships 'willingly' trading goods to Japan and it's allies and not just Japanese ships monopolising on all the resources.