4th Division in 1941-42

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Kelvin
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4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 24 May 2017 18:18

Hi, I see sources that Japanese 4th Division only had 10,957 men, very low in manpower and had no antitank company in each regiment and equipment were old. But I don't understand as a A class division and also HQ general reserve. It is very weak force.
I would like to ask if anyone have some data on its equipment in initial perod of the Pacific War, like how many gun and howitzers in its Artillery regiment. And she really did not have any AT gun ? Any 70mm IG and 75mm Regimental guns held by her ? Someone could help ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 25 May 2017 05:44

The artillery regiment of 4th Division had following artillery.

16 Type 38-improved 75mm Field Guns
8 Type 91 10cm Howitzers

> And she really did not have any AT gun ?

There was no AT gun unit in 4th Division. So, it would have no AT gun.

> Any 70mm IG and 75mm Regimental guns held by her ?

4th Division's infantry regiments had battalion gun platoon and infantry gun company. So, thy had 70mm IG and 75mm Regimental guns. But, the numbers of them are unknown.

Taki

Kelvin
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 25 May 2017 07:20

Akira Takizawa wrote:The artillery regiment of 4th Division had following artillery.

16 Type 38-improved 75mm Field Guns
8 Type 91 10cm Howitzers

> And she really did not have any AT gun ?

There was no AT gun unit in 4th Division. So, it would have no AT gun.

> Any 70mm IG and 75mm Regimental guns held by her ?

4th Division's infantry regiments had battalion gun platoon and infantry gun company. So, thy had 70mm IG and 75mm Regimental guns. But, the numbers of them are unknown.

Taki
Hello, Taki, thank so much for your information. Its Artillery units were really understrength, because of long time attrition in China without getting any reinforcement from home ?

Hi, Taki, I suppose the distribution like this : division should only have 2 battalion one is twelve Type 38 improved field guns and another is 4 x Type 38 and 8 x Type 91 105mm, is it correct ?

BTW, Type 100 Rifle Grenade launcher and Type 2 antitank rifle grenade launchers were standard equipment in Japanese division by 1942 ? because I don't see them in TOE ? Thank

But some units had received many, like 2nd division received 560 x Type 100 Rifle Grenade launchers and when 14th and 29th Infantry divisions were rushed to the Pacific battlefield. Each division received 200 x Type 100 Rifle grenade launchers and 100 x Type 2 antitank rifle grenader launchers. ?

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 25 May 2017 15:58

> Hello, Taki, thank so much for your information. Its Artillery units were really understrength, because of long time attrition in China without getting any reinforcement from home ?

It originally consisted of three field gun battalions and one howitzer battalion and had 36 field guns and 12 howitzers. In China, its three field gun battalions were reduced to two and some field guns were replaced with mountain guns. It was difficult to carry heavy guns on poor roads of China.

Before Philippines Campaign, each battalion reduced three batteries to two batteries. Probably, there was not enough ships to carry them.

> Hi, Taki, I suppose the distribution like this : division should only have 2 battalion one is twelve Type 38 improved field guns and another is 4 x Type 38 and 8 x Type 91 105mm, is it correct ?

No, it consisted of two field gun battalions equipped with 8 field guns each and one howitzer battalion battalion equipped with 8 howitzers.

> BTW, Type 100 Rifle Grenade launcher and Type 2 antitank rifle grenade launchers were standard equipment in Japanese division by 1942 ? because I don't see them in TOE ?

They were not enough produced to deploy as standard equipment. They were sent to important units as extra equipment.

> But some units had received many, like 2nd division received 560 x Type 100 Rifle Grenade launchers and when 14th and 29th Infantry divisions were rushed to the Pacific battlefield. Each division received 200 x Type 100 Rifle grenade launchers and 100 x Type 2 antitank rifle grenader launchers. ?

560 or 300 are many? Usually, one division had about 10,000 rifles.

Taki

Kelvin
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 26 May 2017 06:31

Akira Takizawa wrote:> Hello, Taki, thank so much for your information. Its Artillery units were really understrength, because of long time attrition in China without getting any reinforcement from home ?

It originally consisted of three field gun battalions and one howitzer battalion and had 36 field guns and 12 howitzers. In China, its three field gun battalions were reduced to two and some field guns were replaced with mountain guns. It was difficult to carry heavy guns on poor roads of China.

Before Philippines Campaign, each battalion reduced three batteries to two batteries. Probably, there was not enough ships to carry them.

> Hi, Taki, I suppose the distribution like this : division should only have 2 battalion one is twelve Type 38 improved field guns and another is 4 x Type 38 and 8 x Type 91 105mm, is it correct ?

No, it consisted of two field gun battalions equipped with 8 field guns each and one howitzer battalion battalion equipped with 8 howitzers.

> BTW, Type 100 Rifle Grenade launcher and Type 2 antitank rifle grenade launchers were standard equipment in Japanese division by 1942 ? because I don't see them in TOE ?

They were not enough produced to deploy as standard equipment. They were sent to important units as extra equipment.

> But some units had received many, like 2nd division received 560 x Type 100 Rifle Grenade launchers and when 14th and 29th Infantry divisions were rushed to the Pacific battlefield. Each division received 200 x Type 100 Rifle grenade launchers and 100 x Type 2 antitank rifle grenader launchers. ?

560 or 300 are many? Usually, one division had about 10,000 rifles.

Taki

Hi, Taki, thank a lot for your help on 4th Division. Very helpful. :D

But the support of artillery is of vital importance in war. the shortage of shipping space for gun would undermine division 's war ability.

Should the shortage of shipping space affect the final number of artillery pieces of 16th and 48th Divisions in the Philippines ? I see 16th Division was authorized to have 24 x 105mm howitzers towed by horse and 12 x 75 mm gun towed by tractors and 48th Division was authorized to have 12 x 75mm mountain guns, 16 x 75mm field guns and 8 x 105mm howitzers, did they actually brought less guns than their TOE in the Philippines ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 26 May 2017 09:56

> I see 16th Division was authorized to have 24 x 105mm howitzers towed by horse and 12 x 75 mm gun towed by tractors

No, they are 24 Type 38-improved 75mm Field Guns and 12 Type 91 10cm Howitzers. They were all carried to the Philippines.

I cannot confirm the artillery of 48th Division. But, it would carry all artillery to the Philippines.

Taki

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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 26 May 2017 18:54

Akira Takizawa wrote:> I see 16th Division was authorized to have 24 x 105mm howitzers towed by horse and 12 x 75 mm gun towed by tractors

No, they are 24 Type 38-improved 75mm Field Guns and 12 Type 91 10cm Howitzers. They were all carried to the Philippines.

I cannot confirm the artillery of 48th Division. But, it would carry all artillery to the Philippines.

Taki
Hi, Taki, thank a lot from your correction. My information on 48th and 16th divisions is from Leland book. That mentions 2nd division had the same TOE with 16th division, did 2nd division also had 24 Type 38 improved 75mm field guns and 12 x 105m howitzers to Java in 1942 ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 27 May 2017 01:53

> did 2nd division also had 24 Type 38 improved 75mm field guns and 12 x 105m howitzers to Java in 1942 ?

I only know that it had these guns and the total number of them. But, probably they are that breakdown.

Taki

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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 28 May 2017 08:11

Hi, Taki, thank for your answer. Did 5th and Guards Divisions had two 10 cm howitzer battalions and one 75mm field gun battalion at the same moment ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 28 May 2017 13:10

The artillery regiment of 5th Division had two battalions mixed with field guns and 10cm howitzers and one mountain gun battalion. The artillery regiment of Imperial Guards Division had two field gun battalions and one 10cm howitzer battalion.

Taki

Kelvin
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 28 May 2017 19:35

Akira Takizawa wrote:The artillery regiment of 5th Division had two battalions mixed with field guns and 10cm howitzers and one mountain gun battalion. The artillery regiment of Imperial Guards Division had two field gun battalions and one 10cm howitzer battalion.

Taki
Hello, Taki, thank so much for your information.

Kelvin
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 15 Mar 2020 15:15

Akira Takizawa wrote:
28 May 2017 13:10
The artillery regiment of 5th Division had two battalions mixed with field guns and 10cm howitzers and one mountain gun battalion. The artillery regiment of Imperial Guards Division had two field gun battalions and one 10cm howitzer battalion.

Taki
Hello, Taki, I would like to ask 5th division how to distribute Type 38 75mm and 105mm howitzer in battalion ? 8 x 75mm plus 4 x 105 or opposite ? Thank

And 5th Division still had 4 x inf Regiments but she only had 3 artillery battalions to support 4 x inf Regts ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 15 Mar 2020 15:47

> Hello, Taki, I would like to ask 5th division how to distribute Type 38 75mm and 105mm howitzer in battalion ? 8 x 75mm plus 4 x 105 or opposite ?

5th Artillery Regiment had 16 Type 90 (not Type 38) 75mm Field Guns and 8 Type 91 10cm Howitzers. They would be distributed to two battalions equally, so 8 x 75mm plus 4 x 105.

> And 5th Division still had 4 x inf Regiments but she only had 3 artillery battalions to support 4 x inf Regts ?

It was so.

Taki

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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Kelvin » 15 Mar 2020 16:11

Akira Takizawa wrote:
15 Mar 2020 15:47
> Hello, Taki, I would like to ask 5th division how to distribute Type 38 75mm and 105mm howitzer in battalion ? 8 x 75mm plus 4 x 105 or opposite ?

5th Artillery Regiment had 16 Type 90 (not Type 38) 75mm Field Guns and 8 Type 91 10cm Howitzers. They would be distributed to two battalions equally, so 8 x 75mm plus 4 x 105.

> And 5th Division still had 4 x inf Regiments but she only had 3 artillery battalions to support 4 x inf Regts ?

It was so.

Taki
Hi, Taki, thank for your help and I am suprised that 5th Division had Type 90 75mm Guns, before this, I only know 23rd division had These guns, And I think its mountain gun battalion was 12 x Type 94 75mm mountain guns, Right ?

And Guards Division also have 24 x Type 90 75mm guns and 12 x Type 91 10.5cm Howitzers in Dec 1941 ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 4th Division in 1941-42

Post by Akira Takizawa » 15 Mar 2020 17:20

> I think its mountain gun battalion was 12 x Type 94 75mm mountain guns, Right ?

Yes

> And Guards Division also have 24 x Type 90 75mm guns and 12 x Type 91 10.5cm Howitzers in Dec 1941 ?

No, they are the same as 5th Division, i.e. 16 Type 90 75mm Field Guns, 8 Type 91 10cm Howitzers and 12 Type 94 75mm mountain guns. But, Guards Artillery Regiment distributed them to two field gun battalions and one howitzer battalion.

Taki

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