Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

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Felix C
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Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#1

Post by Felix C » 04 Jul 2019, 17:05

Erminio Bagnasco's book indicates Japanese submarines sank 184 merchant ships in the war. That is more than Italian submarines did.(109 merchant ships) Has anyone confirmed this statement? Seems unusual as there do not have appear to have been many many available for anti-commerce operations. A few off the US West Coast and Hawaiian islands early in the war, then in the Indian Ocean sporadically, then even more limited on shipping routes to/from Australia or in Australian waters. RO boats would be for defensive purposes unless some deployed early on worked in Singapore or North Australian waters.
Last edited by Felix C on 05 Jul 2019, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.

Ryoyo
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#2

Post by Ryoyo » 04 Jul 2019, 20:02

That Japanese Navy wanted their submarine force to be used offensively against enemy naval vessels, they didn't think much the anti-commerce role and didn't really deploy them with that in mind. As the war progressed they were used for more for transporting supplies to places their surface ships couldn't get to safely. Later missions with kaiten were again targeting enemy warships. Japan had some decent subs but never used them to their full potential as well as the Germans or Americans.


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fontessa
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#3

Post by fontessa » 05 Jul 2019, 01:37

Hello Felix C,
Felix C wrote: Erminio Bagnasco's book indicates Japanese submarines sank 184 merchant ships in the war. Has anyone confirmed this statement?
The below shows loss of allied country merchant ships and Japanese merchant ships. The black line shows the loss of allied country merchant ships (Japan submarines ' achievements) and the red line shows the loss of Japanese merchant ships (allied country submarines' achievements). Dots indicate quarterly loss of the merchant ships (1000 ton units). According to this, in the first quarter of 1942, allied country merchant ships were sunk by 200,000 tons. If you read the amount of sinking of each quarter from the black dots and add up, it will be a total of 790,000 tons. If you have 119 ships of 5,000 tons and 65 ships of 3,000 tons, the total is 790,000 tons. Therefore, it can not be said that the above-mentioned numerical value 184 is a mistake.

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fontessa

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#4

Post by Akira Takizawa » 05 Jul 2019, 02:58

According to the article in the following book, Japanese submarines sank 179 Allied merchant ships (902,152 tons). They were added up by the author of the article.

写真 太平洋戦争〈第10巻〉―潜水艦作戦・終戦時の帝国艦艇 (光人社NF文庫)
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4769820925

Taki

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ijnfleetadmiral
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#5

Post by ijnfleetadmiral » 05 Jul 2019, 04:35

Top 10 IJN Submarines (Tonnage Sunk or Damaged)
1) I-26 - 110,153 GRT
2) I-19 - 102.254 GRT
3) I-27 - 93,496 GRT
4) I-10 - 89,851 GRT
5) I-21 - 77,798 GRT
6) I-6 - 55,021 GRT
7) I-37 - 47.942 GRT
8) I-165 - 47.747 GRT
9) I-20 - 46,852 GRT
10) I-29 - 45,275 GRT
MSG, MS State Guard (Ret.) - First Always!

Felix C
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#6

Post by Felix C » 05 Jul 2019, 11:49

Thank you Gentlemen. Always impressive the amount of research available here.

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DrG
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#7

Post by DrG » 18 Jul 2019, 02:20

Felix C wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 17:05
Erminio Bagnasco's book indicates Japanese submarines sank 184 merchant ships in the war. That is more than Italian submarines did.(109 merchant ships)
Actually, Bagnasco's sentence is about only the Italian submarines active in the Atlantic. While there are some discrepancies among the different sources, this page of the Italian Navy's site provides the following figures:
Enemy merchant ships sunk: 132 (665,317 tons);
Enemy military ships sunk: 18 (28,950 tons).

Felix C
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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#8

Post by Felix C » 22 Jul 2019, 21:39

Thanks. Still interesting the Japanese sank more merchant ships as that was not their focus. I know there were not many targets in the Med except for the occasional convoy. I did wonder about sea supply to Cyprus. That is for another section of the forum.

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Re: Japanese submarine successes against merchant ships.

#9

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 31 Jul 2019, 03:23

Felix C wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 17:05
... Seems unusual as there do not have appear to have been many many available for anti-commerce operations. A few off the US West Coast and Hawaiian islands early in the war, then in the Indian Ocean sporadically, then even more limited on shipping routes to/from Australia or in Australian waters. ...
I suspect many were in the South Pacific, where IJN 'fleet' submarine ops also covered the transport operations of the US. That is the submarines deployed to as a distant screen for the IJN carrier & surface ship operations were also across the path of the US cargo ships operating in the Solomons, & points west in 1943/44.

Like most nations the Japanese looked at German efforts to blockade the UK in the Great War and judged those a failure. Consequently most nations went with a combination of small coastal defense subs, and large long ranged 'Fleet' boats that acted as scouts and a cruiser screen for the battle fleet. Most Japanese submarine sorties In 1942-43 were of this fleet operation type. Fleet operations around Guadalcanal were so frequent the screen between the Solomons & the USN bases in Fiji/Samoa and New Zealand was near permanent. Earlier distant screens were maintained off the US west coast and around Hawaii to monitor and interdict major US warships in those areas. In 1942 these fleet boat operations did interdict and torpedo the Saratoga twice, sink the Yorktown, sink the Wasp, torpedo the South Carolina. They also picked off a couple cruisers in the Solomons. November 1943 one of the I boats sank the escort carrier Liscombe Bay, killing 800+ sailors at the Tarawa Atoll.

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