23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

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Kelvin
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23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Kelvin » 13 Mar 2020 12:55

Hello, I would like to ask what types of tank or tankette in its two tank companies in recon Regiment of 23rd division in 1940-1941, anyone can help ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Akira Takizawa » 13 Mar 2020 15:22

23rd Recon Regiment consisted of one motorized infantry company and one tankette company (Not two tank companies). A tankette company had 5 tankettes (probably, Type 97 Tankettes)

Note that there was divisional tank unit in 23rd Division. It had one tank company and 15 Type 95 Light Tanks.

Taki

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fontessa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by fontessa » 14 Mar 2020 07:39

Hello,

Kelvin limits the period to 1940-1941. The organization of the regiment at this time was stipulated in the Army Mobilization Plan of Fiscal Year 1941.
The below is the summary of Army Regulation "A" No.55 Appendix Table 10-2 dated 22 November 1940.
According to it, the regiment had 2 Light Armoed Car Companies.

23rdReconRegiment.jpg

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Kelvin
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Kelvin » 14 Mar 2020 11:09

fontessa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 07:39
Hello,

Kelvin limits the period to 1940-1941. The organization of the regiment at this time was stipulated in the Army Mobilization Plan of Fiscal Year 1941.
The below is the summary of Army Regulation "A" No.55 Appendix Table 10-2 dated 22 November 1940.
According to it, the regiment had 2 Light Armoed Car Companies.


23rdReconRegiment.jpg


fontessa

Hello, Fontessa, thank for your help and your attachment. Very helpful.

And Taki, also thank for your help. And did divisional tank unit for the year 1940-41 ? And belongs to organic unit of division ? Thank

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Akira Takizawa » 14 Mar 2020 13:31

Fontessa,

I think that that plan was not realized. According to the diary of 23rd Recon Regiment dated July 1941, the regiment had only one motorized infantry company and one tankette company.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13071208800

Kelven,
> And did divisional tank unit for the year 1940-41 ?
Yes. It was created in Dec. 1940 and disbanded in 1942.
> And belongs to organic unit of division ?
Yes

Taki

Kelvin
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Kelvin » 14 Mar 2020 15:13

Akira Takizawa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 13:31
Fontessa,

I think that that plan was not realized. According to the diary of 23rd Recon Regiment dated July 1941, the regiment had only one motorized infantry company and one tankette company.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13071208800

Kelven,
> And did divisional tank unit for the year 1940-41 ?
Yes. It was created in Dec. 1940 and disbanded in 1942.
> And belongs to organic unit of division ?
Yes

Taki
Hello, Taki, thank again for your help.

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fontessa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by fontessa » 14 Mar 2020 15:33

Hello Taki,

Thanks for the comment.
Akira Takizawa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 13:31
I think that that plan was not realized. According to the diary of 23rd Recon Regiment dated July 1941, the regiment had only one motorized infantry company and one tankette company.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13071208800
I guess the below was the composition before reorganization.
- 聯隊本部 Regimental HQ
- 1st Company 乗車中隊 Riding company
- 3rd Company 装甲車中隊 Armored Car Company

2nd Company 乗車中隊, 4th Company 装甲車中隊 and 5th Company 自動車中隊 (Automobile CO, Only HQ) were newly added in July 1941. Assigned personnel lists were shown from page25 to page34. And the layouts of Regiment’s barracks were shown in pages 35 and 36.

I have two questions,
(1) Dose "乗車中隊" mean “Mobilized Infantry Company”?
In the Organization Table I have quoted, “乗車中隊” and “自動車中隊” which had trucks were clearly distinguished, What does "乗車中隊” soldiers ride?
(2) Does Tankette mean “Armed Car"?

fontessa

Kelvin
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Kelvin » 14 Mar 2020 15:55

fontessa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 15:33
Hello Taki,

Thanks for the comment.
Akira Takizawa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 13:31
I think that that plan was not realized. According to the diary of 23rd Recon Regiment dated July 1941, the regiment had only one motorized infantry company and one tankette company.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13071208800
I guess the below was the composition before reorganization.
- 聯隊本部 Regimental HQ
- 1st Company 乗車中隊 Riding company
- 3rd Company 装甲車中隊 Armored Car Company

2nd Company 乗車中隊, 4th Company 装甲車中隊 and 5th Company 自動車中隊 (Automobile CO, Only HQ) were newly added in July 1941. Assigned personnel lists were shown from page25 to page34. And the layouts of Regiment’s barracks were shown in pages 35 and 36.

I have two questions,
(1) Dose "乗車中隊" mean “Mobilized Infantry Company”?
In the Organization Table I have quoted, “乗車中隊” and “自動車中隊” which had trucks were clearly distinguished, What does "乗車中隊” soldiers ride?
(2) Does Tankette mean “Armed Car"?

fontessa
Hello, Fontessa, just my opinion, in other armies, armored car is wheeled armoured Vehicle and tankette and tank were tracked armored vehicles but I found that Japanese army called all Tankette as armored car like Type 92 or Type 97 armoured car (Tankette), so Tankette means armored car.

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fontessa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by fontessa » 14 Mar 2020 16:37

Hwllo Kelvin,
Kelvin wrote:
14 Mar 2020 15:55
Hello, Fontessa, just my opinion, in other armies, armored car is wheeled armoured Vehicle and tankette and tank were tracked armored vehicles but I found that Japanese army called all Tankette as armored car like Type 92 or Type 97 armoured car (Tankette), so Tankette means armored car.
First of all I am not very familiar with tanks and armored vehicles. thanks for the comment. On the Japanese Wiki, I have confirmed that very small tanks were called armored vehicles (and not vice versa). However, in this case, in 3rd and 4t companies, I think the armored vehicles were used for troop transport. According to my uploaded schedule, each company has 52 men and 7 armored vehicles. The number of personnel per armored vehicle is 7-8, so in this case I think that wheeled armored vehicles were used.

fontessa

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Akira Takizawa » 14 Mar 2020 16:52

> 2nd Company 乗車中隊, 4th Company 装甲車中隊 and 5th Company 自動車中隊 (Automobile CO, Only HQ) were newly added in July 1941. Assigned personnel lists were shown from page25 to page34. And the layouts of Regiment’s barracks were shown in pages 35 and 36.

So, the plan was realized. I did not notice. Thank you.

I have two questions,
(1) Dose "乗車中隊" mean “Mobilized Infantry Company”?

乗車中隊 is translated as motorized infantry company.

In the Organization Table I have quoted, “乗車中隊” and “自動車中隊” which had trucks were clearly distinguished, What does "乗車中隊” soldiers ride?

They ride on truck. 自動車中隊 is not infantry, but a transport unit of supply.

(2) Does Tankette mean “Armed Car"?

Tankette means 軽装甲車.

Taki

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Akira Takizawa » 14 Mar 2020 16:55

fontessa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 16:37
However, in this case, in 3rd and 4t companies, I think the armored vehicles were used for troop transport. According to my uploaded schedule, each company has 52 men and 7 armored vehicles. The number of personnel per armored vehicle is 7-8, so in this case I think that wheeled armored vehicles were used.
No, they are 九四式 or 九七式軽装甲車 (Type 94 or Type 97 Tankette).

Taki

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fontessa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by fontessa » 14 Mar 2020 17:04

Hello Taki,
Akira Takizawa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 16:55
fontessa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 16:37
However, in this case, in 3rd and 4t companies, I think the armored vehicles were used for troop transport. According to my uploaded schedule, each company has 52 men and 7 armored vehicles. The number of personnel per armored vehicle is 7-8, so in this case I think that wheeled armored vehicles were used.
No, they are 九四式 or 九七式軽装甲車 (Type 94 or Type 97 Tankette).

Taki
Understood. They were not used for troop transportation.

fontessa

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fontessa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by fontessa » 30 Mar 2020 08:32

Hello Taki,
Akira Takizawa wrote:
14 Mar 2020 16:52
They ride on truck. 自動車中隊 is not infantry, but a transported unit of supply.

Taki
Understood, thanks. But I guess baggage carrier personnel of Regimental HQ with 21 trucks transported supply.
As seen from Organization Table, 乗車中隊 didn’t have trucks. I guess the troopers of two 乗車中隊 got on the trucks of 自動車中隊. And I also guess the task of 自動車中隊 was troop transport and truck maintenance.


I checked the Equipment Table, and revised the Organization Table. (Vehicle distribution in light Armored Car Company and Automobile Company is estimated.)


23rdReconRegiment.jpg

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Akira Takizawa » 30 Mar 2020 10:13

I researched and found the following document.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13070981800

It says that motorcar company(自動車中隊) has the ability to transport two motorized infantry companies(乗車中隊). So, it was used to transport infantry. As you said, 自動車中隊 will be the transport unit for infantry.

Taki

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Re: 23rd Division's tank in Recon Regt,

Post by Kelvin » 30 Mar 2020 10:39

Akira Takizawa wrote:
30 Mar 2020 10:13
I researched and found the following document.
https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C13070981800

It says that motorcar company(自動車中隊) has the ability to transport two motorized infantry companies(乗車中隊). So, it was used to transport infantry. As you said, 自動車中隊 will be the transport unit for infantry.

Taki
Hi, Taki, as 23rd Division in 1941 TOE Transport Regiment had 6 x 145 men Motor companies with 38 x trucks each, apart from army supply, also for transporting three infantry Regiments to reinforce the border ? Thank

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