Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

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Smoj
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 26 Jan 2022 19:21

Scratch the last comment, found a link on the page that led to this online copy.

https://archive.org/details/historyofun ... 5/mode/2up

Another one on the list for me to read, and it looks interesting.

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by daveshoup2MD » 27 Jan 2022 02:25

Smoj wrote:
26 Jan 2022 19:12
daveshoup2MD wrote:
26 Jan 2022 07:58
Smoj wrote:
25 Jan 2022 16:05
The State Library in my city may have access to those books, but I doubt it. The online copies will probably have to do. Next time I'm down that way, I'll have a look. The Australian War Memorial in Canberra will no doubt have some good stuff from the RAN and RAAF as well.

I'll probably need the next few years to get through all the material I've received the links for from you guys anyway, short of going to Tokyo myself, it's a pretty good start. I really appreciate the push in the right direction. So far I think I have what I need, for now.

But I'll be digging deep for other aspects of the campaign soon enough. It's difficult to not get ahead of myself... And difficult to keep on track, not getting distracted by the info about other battles. But the links you all have provided have been very useful.

If you're interested, I'll keep you guys informed if and when this project hits critical mass, and sees the light of day.
FWIW:

Morison:
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2092918

USMC History:
https://www.usmcu.edu/Portals/218/Histo ... 262400.pdf

USAAF History:
https://media.defense.gov/2010/Nov/05/2 ... 05-010.pdf
Thanks very much. I can't get to the National Library just now (I'm 4-5,000km away), but the other two links are great. I've started reading the USMC history, and will definitely need to read the USAAF history later too, once I start working the air angle.

Cheers!
Sure. Enjoy.

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by daveshoup2MD » 27 Jan 2022 02:28

Smoj wrote:
26 Jan 2022 19:21
Scratch the last comment, found a link on the page that led to this online copy.

https://archive.org/details/historyofun ... 5/mode/2up

Another one on the list for me to read, and it looks interesting.
If you read all 15 volumes of Morison cover to cover, you will understand more about how and why the US fought in WW II than 95% of those who comment on it. Enjoy. :)

Smoj
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Location: Western Australia

Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 27 Jan 2022 09:34

daveshoup2MD wrote:
27 Jan 2022 02:28
Smoj wrote:
26 Jan 2022 19:21
Scratch the last comment, found a link on the page that led to this online copy.

https://archive.org/details/historyofun ... 5/mode/2up

Another one on the list for me to read, and it looks interesting.
If you read all 15 volumes of Morison cover to cover, you will understand more about how and why the US fought in WW II than 95% of those who comment on it. Enjoy. :)
So far, it's a good read. 15 volumes will make for some extended, but very interesting reading.

The more I dig into WW2 (and I've had over half a century on this planet to do that, at least at an amateur level), the less clear-cut things often become.

Accepted history has been written already, and that is what most people have reference to. Then Hollywood takes the facts that we do know, and turns them into a load of guff that many accept as the truth. But we are finding out more and more about events which have been misrepresented through the fog of war, or otherwise pushed under the carpet out of convenience.

For all the accounts of the battles, and more recnet analysis and discovery, there is still a huge amount we will probably never know.

It would be fantastic to see more accounts of the Japanese side of events translated into English as well, so Anglocentric guys like me can see both sides. It seems much was destroyed or became otherwise unavailable. But all my life, I have only really heard the US side of things. I've been an allied fanboy for most of my life, so that's what I know.

I've been looking to find out what I can, to fill in some of the blanks maybe.

This is not for any scholarly attempt to put things right or anything. I'm designing a computer game, based on the Pacific War, starting with Guadalcanal, possibly expanding as far as New Guinea and Rabaul, to Santo in the New Hebrides. Maybe further.

How many people actually read books these days anyway? I do, you do, but how many others? I think there are fewer each year. So I'm trying to inject a little historical accuracy into this game, as much as I can, in a dynamic environment where the game outcome will likely be different to the historical outcome, based on the tactical and strategic decisions made by the players.

And of course, I need to know the Japanese side, in order to fairly and accurately represent those brave men.

I'd rather get it as right as I can, than just invent some lazy misinterpretation of events that some young kid will think is what really happened, for the rest of their life.

So I think I'll be coming back here quite a bit over the next few years. I may even have read all 15 volumes by then. :)

Once again, I really appreciate the welcome and the generous assistance you guys have given me so far. I'll pay back what I can, by posting what I find, starting with the Senshi Sosho maps as and when I get through the rest of them.

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by daveshoup2MD » 27 Jan 2022 22:25

Smoj wrote:
27 Jan 2022 09:34
daveshoup2MD wrote:
27 Jan 2022 02:28
Smoj wrote:
26 Jan 2022 19:21
Scratch the last comment, found a link on the page that led to this online copy.

https://archive.org/details/historyofun ... 5/mode/2up

Another one on the list for me to read, and it looks interesting.
If you read all 15 volumes of Morison cover to cover, you will understand more about how and why the US fought in WW II than 95% of those who comment on it. Enjoy. :)
So far, it's a good read. 15 volumes will make for some extended, but very interesting reading.

The more I dig into WW2 (and I've had over half a century on this planet to do that, at least at an amateur level), the less clear-cut things often become.

Accepted history has been written already, and that is what most people have reference to. Then Hollywood takes the facts that we do know, and turns them into a load of guff that many accept as the truth. But we are finding out more and more about events which have been misrepresented through the fog of war, or otherwise pushed under the carpet out of convenience.

For all the accounts of the battles, and more recnet analysis and discovery, there is still a huge amount we will probably never know.

It would be fantastic to see more accounts of the Japanese side of events translated into English as well, so Anglocentric guys like me can see both sides. It seems much was destroyed or became otherwise unavailable. But all my life, I have only really heard the US side of things. I've been an allied fanboy for most of my life, so that's what I know.

I've been looking to find out what I can, to fill in some of the blanks maybe.

This is not for any scholarly attempt to put things right or anything. I'm designing a computer game, based on the Pacific War, starting with Guadalcanal, possibly expanding as far as New Guinea and Rabaul, to Santo in the New Hebrides. Maybe further.

How many people actually read books these days anyway? I do, you do, but how many others? I think there are fewer each year. So I'm trying to inject a little historical accuracy into this game, as much as I can, in a dynamic environment where the game outcome will likely be different to the historical outcome, based on the tactical and strategic decisions made by the players.

And of course, I need to know the Japanese side, in order to fairly and accurately represent those brave men.

I'd rather get it as right as I can, than just invent some lazy misinterpretation of events that some young kid will think is what really happened, for the rest of their life.

So I think I'll be coming back here quite a bit over the next few years. I may even have read all 15 volumes by then. :)

Once again, I really appreciate the welcome and the generous assistance you guys have given me so far. I'll pay back what I can, by posting what I find, starting with the Senshi Sosho maps as and when I get through the rest of them.
Best of luck.

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Jack Nisley
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Jack Nisley » 28 Jan 2022 00:23

Smoj, just to state the obvious: Your second map is of the destruction of the Ichiki Detachment on Aug 21, 1942. The upper part shows the mouth of the Lunga River at the upper left, Henderson field in the center, and the defensive positions of 1st Battalion, 1st Marines facing east at the "Tenaru" River (actually Alligator Creek). Ichiki Detachment attacks from the east primarily at the river mouth. From the TV series "The Pacific", this is a fictional depiction of the attack: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFy3_UWN8I). From the east end of Henderson Field you see the movement of 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines to loop around the Japanese left flank and attack north to the coast and destroy Ichiki Detachment.The lower part show the arrival of Ichiki Detachment on Aug 18 and their movement along the north coast of Guadalcanal to attack. The official USMC history is: http: (//www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/Guadalcan ... nal-4.html). If not already mention by one of the experts (Not being sarcastic) here, Richard B. Frank's books "Guadalcanal" and "Tower of Skulls" are tremendous. Frank says the the US official history's mistranslated the name of the Japanese Colonel commanding the "Ichiki" Detachment. Your upper map may be a composite of actions on 27 Sep and 9 Oct, 1942 at the Matanikau River (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/Gu ... nal-6.html). Have fun!

KevDen
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by KevDen » 30 Jan 2022 10:43

To answer a possibly rhetorical question posed by smoj earlier, I for one still buy and reads books. Too many really, but I sinply cant stand reading books on a computer / tablet screen.

And as for the overall G'canal campiagn, well if one only ever read one book on said campaign then Franks 'Guadalcanal' is still, after all these years, head and shoulders above all others as it encompass in more than adequate detail all aspects (i.e. land, sea, air), admittedly primarily from the Allied perspectvie as it were. Yes it has the odd mistake but nothing too serious IMO, and yes their are other books that concentrate / expand more on a specific battle / action (which I have also read), but nothing compares to the grand scale of Franks. As poster #21 states, it is simply 'tremendous'.
“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 11.00 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Smoj
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Location: Western Australia

Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 11 Feb 2022 11:09

Jack Nisley wrote:
28 Jan 2022 00:23
Smoj, just to state the obvious: Your second map is of the destruction of the Ichiki Detachment on Aug 21, 1942. The upper part shows the mouth of the Lunga River at the upper left, Henderson field in the center, and the defensive positions of 1st Battalion, 1st Marines facing east at the "Tenaru" River (actually Alligator Creek). Ichiki Detachment attacks from the east primarily at the river mouth. From the TV series "The Pacific", this is a fictional depiction of the attack: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFy3_UWN8I). From the east end of Henderson Field you see the movement of 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines to loop around the Japanese left flank and attack north to the coast and destroy Ichiki Detachment.The lower part show the arrival of Ichiki Detachment on Aug 18 and their movement along the north coast of Guadalcanal to attack. The official USMC history is: http: (//www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/Guadalcan ... nal-4.html). If not already mention by one of the experts (Not being sarcastic) here, Richard B. Frank's books "Guadalcanal" and "Tower of Skulls" are tremendous. Frank says the the US official history's mistranslated the name of the Japanese Colonel commanding the "Ichiki" Detachment. Your upper map may be a composite of actions on 27 Sep and 9 Oct, 1942 at the Matanikau River (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/Gu ... nal-6.html). Have fun!
Thanks for the recommendations Jack, they are definitely on my long reading list, and I've started reading Frank's book... At this point I'm just throwing everything into an archive, and will work back through it as I need to.

Yes, I believe the top map is a composite of Matanikau. There are many other maps I'm going through from Senshi Sosho that cover the Japanese Matanikau defenses and counter attacks. I'll post more of these maps later, in fresh thread. But here are a couple more for now.
If you hover the cursor over the image, I've given them basic labels.
Matanikau Pt. Cruz.png
I think this map may show the Medal of Honour action near Pt. Cruz.
Poha to Lunga Hvy Wpns Tk.png
This bottom map seems to indicate a Japanese tank unit towards the west? Not sure... Just to the north west of the infantry brigade headquarters... (The HQ symbol looks like a Star of David).
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Last edited by Smoj on 11 Feb 2022 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

Smoj
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 11 Feb 2022 11:26

KevDen wrote:
30 Jan 2022 10:43
To answer a possibly rhetorical question posed by smoj earlier, I for one still buy and reads books. Too many really, but I sinply cant stand reading books on a computer / tablet screen.

And as for the overall G'canal campiagn, well if one only ever read one book on said campaign then Franks 'Guadalcanal' is still, after all these years, head and shoulders above all others as it encompass in more than adequate detail all aspects (i.e. land, sea, air), admittedly primarily from the Allied perspectvie as it were. Yes it has the odd mistake but nothing too serious IMO, and yes their are other books that concentrate / expand more on a specific battle / action (which I have also read), but nothing compares to the grand scale of Franks. As poster #21 states, it is simply 'tremendous'.
No worries, Kev... I was being a little cynical maybe, definitely not casting aspersions on anyone here. :D
More of a poke at society in general.

I actually read most books on my phone. Generally on my way to work, or on breaks, lunch, that kind of thing. Probably why my eyes are getting worse every year... But as I work a couple of thousand kilometers away from the nearest book shop, it's much easier to carry 20 books around on my phone than it is to carry them in my bag every time I get on a plane.

On the downside, Frank's book won't really work on my phone so well. So when I'm back at home (like now), I just run it up on my TV, got a PC attached. I can make notes, search for other info, Google Earth the locations, get sidetracked by Youtube videos...

But I would love to get a proper hardback copy of Frank's. So far it has been very well written, and very informative. A definite classic that I could keep turning back to.

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Akira Takizawa
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Akira Takizawa » 11 Feb 2022 12:02

> This bottom map seems to indicate a Japanese tank unit towards the west?

No, it is 2nd Division.

Taki

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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by OpanaPointer » 11 Feb 2022 12:34

We wanted to put the Morison books on Hyperwar but the publisher wouldn't let go of the copyright. As a documentarian I look forward to the day when we can get our grubby mitts on them.
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by KevDen » 11 Feb 2022 14:35

Smoj wrote:
11 Feb 2022 11:26
No worries, Kev... I was being a little cynical maybe, definitely not casting aspersions on anyone here. :D More of a poke at society in general.

I actually read most books on my phone. Generally on my way to work, or on breaks, lunch, that kind of thing. Probably why my eyes are getting worse every year... But as I work a couple of thousand kilometers away from the nearest book shop, it's much easier to carry 20 books around on my phone than it is to carry them in my bag every time I get on a plane.
No offence whatsoever taken smoj. In the situations you describe (and no doubt others) it makes much more sense to have some books on a device. I am not against it, I just cant do it, get into it. Guess my old fingers are just addicted to paper.

Now on another note, speaking of the Matanikau and Japanese tanks as others are, in the later half of the the 90's, you could still swim out and snorkel around several of the tanks in photo below, and at low tide a couple of the turrets we even above water. If I recall correctly they were then about 100m / 330ft off the beach. As can be thus envisioned, the coastline obviously has changed there since October '42.
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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 11.00 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by OpanaPointer » 11 Feb 2022 15:00

IIRC Morison wasn't allowed to discuss ULTRA when he did the histories?
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Smoj
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 11 Feb 2022 20:12

Akira Takizawa wrote:
11 Feb 2022 12:02
> This bottom map seems to indicate a Japanese tank unit towards the west?

No, it is 2nd Division.

Taki
Thanks Taki. I saw "TKI" with a character next to it, thought it might be light tank, but it's tough to decipher these maps sometimes. I'll spend more time on it when I have some. :)

Smoj
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Re: Japanese positions at Guadalcanal.

Post by Smoj » 11 Feb 2022 20:17

OpanaPointer wrote:
11 Feb 2022 12:34
We wanted to put the Morison books on Hyperwar but the publisher wouldn't let go of the copyright. As a documentarian I look forward to the day when we can get our grubby mitts on them.
You seem to have done pretty well getting everything else on there! Can't have everything, I guess. Could try sending the goons around maybe. Try a little "persuading". :wink:

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