IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

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daveshoup2MD
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by daveshoup2MD » 15 Feb 2022 21:12

fontessa wrote:
15 Feb 2022 17:52
daveshoup2MD wrote:
10 Feb 2022 22:53
fontessa wrote:
10 Feb 2022 10:06
Berend wrote:
10 Feb 2022 09:31
No I don't mean depth charge drop rails either. It is a sloped frame placed on deck between/around the deck gear. It carried as far as I know one landing craft.

Berend
Oh, is it this? (My last possibility)
Three destroyers were temporarily refurbished for the Kiska Withdrawal Operation.

fontessa
An extemporized APD. Interesting. Definitely a one way trip for the landing craft.
I agree.

I would like to show another case related to Kaiten.
Kaiten was one of the suicide weapons devised in the desperate battlefield.

Several ships were converted to Kaiten Transport Ships.
Kitakami
She was commissioned in 1921 as the 3rd ship of Kuma class light cruiser. Both she and the 4th ship OI were not equipped with aircraft catapults. Kitakami and Oi were converted to Heavy Torpedo Ships in 1941 equipped with 10 Type92 quad topedo launchers. Both of them could launch 20 powerful Type93 61cm “oxygen torpedoes” simultaneously on one side. With Kitakami and Oi, the 9th Squadron was activated in 1941. The purpose of it was to launch a total of 40 torpedos during the battle with the US Navy fleet. Unfortunately, such a situation didn’t happen. Finally, Kitakami was re-converted to a Kaiten Transport Ship in 1944. Her stern was reformed to a slope and a winch was added. With it, she could pull up Kaitens. As shown in Fig.2, she could carry 8 Kaitens. At the time of the Mainland Defense, she was considered to participate in the attack as the mother ship of Kaitens. After the war, she survived the war and served as the fixed repair ship supporting demobilized transport ships,
Matsu / Tachibana class destroyers
The destryers below were remodeled to carry a Kaiten. As shown in Fig.3, a slope was added to teir stern.
Take, Maki, Kiri, Kaya, Tsuta / 41st Destroyer Division
Shugi, Kashi, Kaede, Nire, Nachi / 52nd Destroyer Division



北上 回天.jpg



北上.jpg



回天 椎.jpg



回天 竹.jpg



fontessa
Thanks for the detail. Given the likely tactical/operational situations given the USN's advantages in the day with air power and at night with radar, not sure it would have made any real difference from 1943-45 whether Kitakami was carrying conventional or manned torpedoes ...

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ShindenKai
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by ShindenKai » 30 Jul 2022 07:52

Fontessa,

I recall reading somewhere that some of the IJN ships with a sloped/ramped stern also employed a ballast tank to further lower the stern when launching Daihatsu, Kaiten or Midget subs, did the Kitakami have a ballast tank for this purpose? Thank you again for all your info.

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 30 Jul 2022 09:57

ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jul 2022 07:52
Fontessa,

I recall reading somewhere that some of the IJN ships with a sloped/ramped stern also employed a ballast tank to further lower the stern when launching Daihatsu, Kaiten or Midget subs, did the Kitakami have a ballast tank for this purpose? Thank you again for all your info.
I don't think so.

北上側面.jpg

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Eugen Pinak
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by Eugen Pinak » 01 Aug 2022 10:06

ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jul 2022 07:52
Fontessa,

I recall reading somewhere that some of the IJN ships with a sloped/ramped stern also employed a ballast tank to further lower the stern when launching Daihatsu, Kaiten or Midget subs, did the Kitakami have a ballast tank for this purpose? Thank you again for all your info.
AFAIK, "Kitakami" had no ballast tanks. T-1 class transport did have such tanks.

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 01 Aug 2022 23:00

Eugen Pinak wrote:
01 Aug 2022 10:06
T-1 class transport did have such tanks.
Wasn't it 2nd class transport (LSD)?

2等輸送艦 揚陸手順.jpg

fontessa
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ShindenKai
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by ShindenKai » 02 Aug 2022 07:30

Eugen Pinak wrote:
01 Aug 2022 10:06
AFAIK, "Kitakami" had no ballast tanks. T-1 class transport did have such tanks.
Would that be the same as No.1 Class?
IJN_No.1ClassFastTransportBallastTank.jpg
IJN_No.1_Class_LandingShip_SternRamp.jpg
I don't know why the drawing is posting vertically (its saved horizontally in my pc).. anyhoo, the drawing and pic is of a No.1 Class Fast Transport?? Drawing shows ballast tank over prop shaft and under crew space.

Fontessa, that's an awesome set of images. I had no idea that the 2nd Class Transports also had a ballast tank.
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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 02 Aug 2022 10:03

ShindenKai wrote:
02 Aug 2022 07:30
Eugen Pinak wrote:
01 Aug 2022 10:06
AFAIK, "Kitakami" had no ballast tanks. T-1 class transport did have such tanks.
Would that be the same as No.1 Class?
IJN_No.1ClassFastTransportBallastTank.jpgIJN_No.1_Class_LandingShip_SternRamp.jpg

I don't know why the drawing is posting vertically (its saved horizontally in my pc).. anyhoo, the drawing and pic is of a No.1 Class Fast Transport?? Drawing shows ballast tank over prop shaft and under crew space.

Fontessa, that's an awesome set of images. I had no idea that the 2nd Class Transports also had a ballast tank.
Unfortunately I call use PC now. I would like to apload related pictures later.

1st Class Transporters
Athough used as Kaiten Transporters later, 1st class Transporters used 4 Daihatsus for going to / reterning from the beach in usual landing operations. The ballast tank was used during the up / dogwn of a Daihatus via a slope.

2nd Class Trnansporters
Like U.S. LST, 2nd Class Transporters adjusted her depth using the ballast tank before she retern backward.

fontessa

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 07 Aug 2022 03:47

fontessa wrote:
02 Aug 2022 10:03
1st Class Transporters
Athough used as Kaiten Transporters later, 1st class Transporters used 4 Daihatsus for going to / reterning from the beach in usual landing operations. The ballast tank was used during the up / dogwn of a Daihatus via a slope.
第1号型輸送艦.jpg

fontessa wrote:
02 Aug 2022 10:03
2nd Class Transporters
Like U.S. LST, 2nd Class Transporters adjusted her depth using the ballast tank before she return backward.
The transportation capability of a 2nd Class Transporter was;
Type 97 Light Tank x 7 or Navy Type3 Amphibious Tank x 4
Soldier x 200

第149号輸送艦.jpg

第149輸送艦 戦車揚収.jpg

特3内火艇.jpg

特2内火艇.jpg

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ShindenKai
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by ShindenKai » 10 Aug 2022 02:07

Fontessa, thank you again for the fantastic info! Do know of anywhere to find more info on hull shape of 2nd Class Transports? Thanks again, in advance for all your assistance.

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 10 Aug 2022 08:02

ShindenKai wrote:
10 Aug 2022 02:07
Do know of anywhere to find more info on hull shape of 2nd Class Transports?
"Sorry, I can't catch "more info on hull shape".

There was an error in the General Arrangement Drawing's note that I have uploaded, so I will correct it. If you double-click this, you can see a fairly large drawing on your PC monitor.
第149号輸送艦.jpg

Other than the above, I have only illustration like this.
If you double-click this, you can see a fairly large drawing on your PC monitor.
2等輸送艦 外観.jpg

Hull dimensions are below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No.101-class_landing_ship


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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 10 Aug 2022 15:41

Additional illustrations.

2等輸送艦 外観 A.jpg

2等輸送艦 外観 B.jpg

2等輸送艦 外観 C.jpg

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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by ShindenKai » 11 Aug 2022 03:16

Wow! Thanks Fontessa! Is there a book that has these images and more? Absolutely fantastic!

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 11 Aug 2022 04:36

ShindenKai wrote:
11 Aug 2022 03:16
Wow! Thanks Fontessa! Is there a book that has these images and more? Absolutely fantastic!
The author is こがしゅうと Kogashuto, Japanese.
He is a "minor weapons lover". He likes 2nd class Transports, Daihatsu, Amphibious Tanks, and so on.
He published several Mooks on them, very maniac.
The below "アナタノ知ラナイ兵器 2 Weapons, We Never Heard Off vol.2" is one of them and picks up 2nd class Transport.
I borrowed all pictures of 2nd class Transport from this Mook.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A2%E3%8 ... 4499230519

こがしゅうと.jpg

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Eugen Pinak
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by Eugen Pinak » 11 Aug 2022 13:38

fontessa wrote:
10 Aug 2022 08:02
ShindenKai wrote:
10 Aug 2022 02:07
Do know of anywhere to find more info on hull shape of 2nd Class Transports?
"Sorry, I can't catch "more info on hull shape".

...
fontessa - those are very interesting drawings and pictures. A lot of details. Thank you.

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fontessa
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Re: IJA Landing Operation Ships with slopes at the stern

Post by fontessa » 12 Aug 2022 08:27

Picture of 1st class Transport...

1等輸送艦 2.jpg

fontessa
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