IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

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fontessa
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 01 Jul 2023 08:09

Eugen Pinak wrote:
28 Jun 2023 08:09
Standard air group of "Kumano Maru" was 8 Ki-76 light aniti-submarine aircraft.
35 Ki-84 fighters (17 in the hangar and 18 on flying deck) could be carrier in aircraft transport configuration. They can't be used operationally.
And I have no information if ship's arresting gear was strong enough to allow operation of large aircraft. Though I think it was good enough to operate carrier version of Ki-43, designed late war.
The Kanji category Ki-76 was 3式連絡機 Type3 Liaison Airplane which was a short takeoff and landing aircraft as Fi-156A Storch. The reason why it was chosen for Akitsu Maru was because it was a STOL airplane. As an aside, in Japan, it is mistakenly called 3式指揮連絡機 Type3 Command - Liaison Airplane. Command was added because of the fact that General Rommel took command while boarding "Storch" similar to Ki-76. Of course, there was no general in Japan who had such courage.

The below shows Kumano Mau. The arresting gear used in IJA “Aircraft Carrier” was KX 陸上移動横索制動装置 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device. The first KX ("K" = "K" of Kayaba) was completed in 1933 by 萱場製作所 Kayaba Factory. In addition to the above-mentioned KX, KY 陸上移動火薬式飛行機射出装置 Land Mobile Gunpowder Aircraft Launcher (the first KY was manufactured in 1934) and KZ 応急滑走路敷設器材 Emergency Runway Construction Materials were loaded on trucks and enabled quick move and deployment in the War against the Soviet Union. We know Kayaba Factory as the manufacturer of Ka-go Auto-gyro. KX could stop a 4.5tons airplane at 108 km/h speed. So KX was able to stop a Ki-43 on landing. But I'm not sure about the "Operate carrier version of Ki-43". Maybe this is too much to expect.


Addition
陸軍航空工廠史 Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History says that landing hooks were added to 50 Ki-43s there around March 1944. However, the description is too simplistic, and some people question this.


熊野丸.jpg
熊野 KX.jpg

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Eugen Pinak
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 05 Jul 2023 13:20

ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jun 2023 19:20
Thank you for the extra info, didn't know there was also a carried-based Ki-43, thank you again!
You are welcome. But mind you, carrier version of Ki-43 was only a design. Even no prototypes were built, AFAIK.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 05 Jul 2023 13:28

fontessa wrote:
01 Jul 2023 08:09
The arresting gear used in IJA “Aircraft Carrier” was KX 陸上移動横索制動装置 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device.
Never heard about this device. Thank you for the information.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 05 Jul 2023 15:48

fontessa wrote:
01 Jul 2023 08:09
The below shows Kumano Mau. The arresting gear used in IJA “Aircraft Carrier” was KX 陸上移動横索制動装置 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device. The first KX ("K" = "K" of Kayaba) was completed in 1933 by 萱場製作所 Kayaba Factory. In addition to the above-mentioned KX, KY 陸上移動火薬式飛行機射出装置 Land Mobile Gunpowder Aircraft Launcher (the first KY was manufactured in 1934) and KZ 応急滑走路敷設器材 Emergency Runway Construction Materials were loaded on trucks and enabled quick move and deployment in the War against the Soviet Union. We know Kayaba Factory as the manufacturer of Ka-go Auto-gyro. KX could stop a 4.5tons airplane at 108 km/h speed. So KX was able to stop a Ki-43 on landing. But I'm not sure about the "Operate carrier version of Ki-43". Maybe this is too much to expect.


Addition
陸軍航空工廠史 Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History says that landing hooks were added to 50 Ki-43s there around March 1944. However, the description is too simplistic, and some people question this.

fontessa
According to 軍用機メカ・シリーズ12 隼 / 鍾馗 / 九七戦 Mechanic of World Aircraft Vol.12 Ki-43 / Ki-44 / Ki-27 page49;
〇 着陸制動フック
萱場製作所で開発した陸上移動横索制動装置ケー1 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Deviceke KX と陸上移動式飛行機射出装置ケー2 Land Mobile Aircraft Launcher を使用するために制動フックとカタパルト台車搭載用金具とりつけたもので、工廠で1944年3月に設計に着手してその月のうちに試作機を完成、9月までに合計50機が改修された。
〇 Landing Hook
In order to use the Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device KX and Land Mobile Aircraft Launcher KY developed at the Kayaba Factory, the Ki-43 was equipped with a landing hook and catapult trolley mounting hardware. A prototype was completed within a month of starting, and a total of 50 aircraft had been modified by September.

I think the source is the Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History I mentioned earlier. Since KY is mentioned here, I think that this Ki-43 modification was for land use such as a hidden airfield for special attack.


Eugen Pinak wrote:
05 Jul 2023 13:20
ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jun 2023 19:20
Thank you for the extra info, didn't know there was also a carried-based Ki-43, thank you again!
You are welcome. But mind you, carrier version of Ki-43 was only a design. Even no prototypes were built, AFAIK.
It was not a carrier version as I say as above.


fontessa

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 06 Jul 2023 08:20

fontessa wrote:
05 Jul 2023 15:48
fontessa wrote:
01 Jul 2023 08:09
The below shows Kumano Mau. The arresting gear used in IJA “Aircraft Carrier” was KX 陸上移動横索制動装置 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device. The first KX ("K" = "K" of Kayaba) was completed in 1933 by 萱場製作所 Kayaba Factory. In addition to the above-mentioned KX, KY 陸上移動火薬式飛行機射出装置 Land Mobile Gunpowder Aircraft Launcher (the first KY was manufactured in 1934) and KZ 応急滑走路敷設器材 Emergency Runway Construction Materials were loaded on trucks and enabled quick move and deployment in the War against the Soviet Union. We know Kayaba Factory as the manufacturer of Ka-go Auto-gyro. KX could stop a 4.5tons airplane at 108 km/h speed. So KX was able to stop a Ki-43 on landing. But I'm not sure about the "Operate carrier version of Ki-43". Maybe this is too much to expect.


Addition
陸軍航空工廠史 Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History says that landing hooks were added to 50 Ki-43s there around March 1944. However, the description is too simplistic, and some people question this.

fontessa
According to 軍用機メカ・シリーズ12 隼 / 鍾馗 / 九七戦 Mechanic of World Aircraft Vol.12 Ki-43 / Ki-44 / Ki-27 page49;
〇 着陸制動フック
萱場製作所で開発した陸上移動横索制動装置ケー1 Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Deviceke KX と陸上移動式飛行機射出装置ケー2 Land Mobile Aircraft Launcher を使用するために制動フックとカタパルト台車搭載用金具とりつけたもので、工廠で1944年3月に設計に着手してその月のうちに試作機を完成、9月までに合計50機が改修された。
〇 Landing Hook
In order to use the Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device KX and Land Mobile Aircraft Launcher KY developed at the Kayaba Factory, the Ki-43 was equipped with a landing hook and catapult trolley mounting hardware. A prototype was completed within a month of starting, and a total of 50 aircraft had been modified by September.

I think the source is the Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History I mentioned earlier. Since KY is mentioned here, I think that this Ki-43 modification was for land use such as a hidden airfield for special attack.


Eugen Pinak wrote:
05 Jul 2023 13:20
ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jun 2023 19:20
Thank you for the extra info, didn't know there was also a carried-based Ki-43, thank you again!
You are welcome. But mind you, carrier version of Ki-43 was only a design. Even no prototypes were built, AFAIK.
It was not a carrier version as I say as above.


fontessa
Absolutely fantastic information! Thank you Fontessa and Eugen.

It's a long shot but I have emailed Kayaba, they still exist (and even currently produce shock absorbers for both of my vehicles). Do they have patents for those machines in the Japanese patent office?

Would I also be able to find some of that info in Maru Mechanic Vol.6 or Vol.45? Thx again!

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 06 Jul 2023 09:38

ShindenKai wrote:
06 Jul 2023 08:20

It's a long shot but I have emailed Kayaba, they still exist (and even currently produce shock absorbers for both of my vehicles). Do they have patents for those machines in the Japanese patent office?
Does "patents for those machines" mean "patents for shock absorbers"? I don't know the detail.
We can see the Kayaba patents registered in Japan since 2011 in the web page;
https://ipforce.jp/applicant-1035?s4=4

ShindenKai wrote:
06 Jul 2023 08:20
Would I also be able to find some of that info in Maru Mechanic Vol.6 or Vol.45? Thx again!
Is the author of the article 隼各型の変遷と特長 / Maru Mechanic Vol.6 秋山実? If so this 隼各型の変遷と特長 may be the same as that of Mechanic of World Aircraft Vol.12 Ki-43 / Ki-44 / Ki-27. Try to find the Kanji 着陸制動フック装着 in the paragraph 戦訓改修機 there.

fontessa

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 06 Jul 2023 18:13

fontessa wrote:
06 Jul 2023 09:38
Does "patents for those machines" mean "patents for shock absorbers"? I don't know the detail.
We can see the Kayaba patents registered in Japan since 2011 in the web page;
https://ipforce.jp/applicant-1035?s4=4
My apologies, I meant patents for the:
1)Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device
2)Land Mobile Gunpowder Aircraft Launcher (truck or trailer mounted??)

Were those devices used for aircraft other than the Ki-76 & Ki-43?
Being built in 1933 is a considerable amount of time before either of those aircraft existed.
fontessa wrote:
06 Jul 2023 09:38
Is the author of the article 隼各型の変遷と特長 / Maru Mechanic Vol.6 秋山実? If so this 隼各型の変遷と特長 may be the same as that of Mechanic of World Aircraft Vol.12 Ki-43 / Ki-44 / Ki-27. Try to find the Kanji 着陸制動フック装着 in the paragraph 戦訓改修機 there.
fontessa


It's my understanding that the Maru Mechanic/Mechanic of the World series were published/printed in two ways:
1)Softbound/paperback, single subject, single volume.
2)Hardbound/hardcover with three volumes (each volume covering 1 specific aircraft) printed together in each hardbound volume.

Thank you, Fontessa

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 06 Jul 2023 19:28

ShindenKai wrote:
06 Jul 2023 18:13
fontessa wrote:
06 Jul 2023 09:38
Does "patents for those machines" mean "patents for shock absorbers"? I don't know the detail.
We can see the Kayaba patents registered in Japan since 2011 in the web page;
https://ipforce.jp/applicant-1035?s4=4
My apologies, I meant patents for the:
1)Land Mobile Transverse Rope Braking Device
2)Land Mobile Gunpowder Aircraft Launcher (truck or trailer mounted??)

Were those devices used for aircraft other than the Ki-76 & Ki-43?
Being built in 1933 is a considerable amount of time before either of those aircraft existed.
As for KX, the following airplanes have been tested and all have been successful. Note that they were all lighter than the Ki-43. It is unknown whether the planes deployed by combat units were modified with landing hooks.
Type91 Fighter
Type92 Reconnaissance Aircraft
Type88 Reconnaissance Aircraft
Ki-2 Type93 Twin-engine Light Bomber ... Typo of Ki-3 Type93 Single-engine Light Bomber?


ShindenKai wrote:
06 Jul 2023 08:20
Would I also be able to find some of that info in Maru Mechanic Vol.6 or Vol.45?
I thought you mentioned the below and you have them.
丸メカニック 表紙.jpg

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 07 Jul 2023 10:43

fontessa wrote:
05 Jul 2023 15:48
I think the source is the Army Air Aircraft Arsenal History I mentioned earlier. Since KY is mentioned here, I think that this Ki-43 modification was for land use such as a hidden airfield for special attack.


Eugen Pinak wrote:
05 Jul 2023 13:20
ShindenKai wrote:
30 Jun 2023 19:20
Thank you for the extra info, didn't know there was also a carried-based Ki-43, thank you again!
You are welcome. But mind you, carrier version of Ki-43 was only a design. Even no prototypes were built, AFAIK.
It was not a carrier version as I say as above.
I was 100% sure it was intended for carriers.
Thank you for correcting me, Fontessa.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 08 Jul 2023 00:24

fontessa wrote:
06 Jul 2023 19:28
As for KX, the following airplanes have been tested and all have been successful. Note that they were all lighter than the Ki-43. It is unknown whether the planes deployed by combat units were modified with landing hooks.
Type91 Fighter
Type92 Reconnaissance Aircraft
Type88 Reconnaissance Aircraft
Ki-2 Type93 Twin-engine Light Bomber ... Typo of Ki-3 Type93 Single-engine Light Bomber?

I thought you mentioned the below and you have them.
fontessa


Wow, that's very interesting, never would of guessed those aircraft would've been used with those landing & take-off devices.

I don't currently have any of the volumes mentioned but I did see two volumes for sale and I was hoping one would have the same info as Vol.12.

Thank you so much for extra info Fontessa.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 16 Jul 2023 11:16

Ki-76s on Akitsu Maru

Akitsu Maru was under the aircraft carrier conversion work between 13 April 1944 and 30 July 1944 at Harima Shipyard.
The air companies below were the candidate for her.
 The 1st Independent Air Company (used Ki-76s) which was a regular air company.
 The 2nd Shipping Air Company (used Ka-go auto-gyros) which belonged to Shipping Command.

Note that Ka-go auto-gyro was developed at 陸軍技術本部 Army Technical Headquarters, not at usual 陸軍航空本部 Army Air Administration Department. That was the reason why Ka-go auto-gyro didn’t have a Ki-number. Due to the delay of Ka-go auto-gyro development, the 1st Independent Air Company boarded the Akitsu Maru. She engaged to 4 anti-submarine patrols between 6 August 1944 and 30 September 1944 in the Korean Strait. And she was reconverted to transport ship. So all the money spent on conversion to an aircraft carrier was wasted. It was chaos caused by the impatience of the Army's upper echelons.

あきつ丸 10.jpg

KI-76 B.jpg

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 28 Jul 2023 18:15

fontessa wrote:
16 Jul 2023 11:16
Ki-76s on Akitsu Maru

Akitsu Maru was under the aircraft carrier conversion work between 13 April 1944 and 30 July 1944 at Harima Shipyard.
The air companies below were the candidate for her.
 The 1st Independent Air Company (used Ki-76s) which was a regular air company.
 The 2nd Shipping Air Company (used Ka-go auto-gyros) which belonged to Shipping Command.

Note that Ka-go auto-gyro was developed at 陸軍技術本部 Army Technical Headquarters, not at usual 陸軍航空本部 Army Air Administration Department. That was the reason why Ka-go auto-gyro didn’t have a Ki-number. Due to the delay of Ka-go auto-gyro development, the 1st Independent Air Company boarded the Akitsu Maru. She engaged to 4 anti-submarine patrols between 6 August 1944 and 30 September 1944 in the Korean Strait. And she was reconverted to transport ship. So all the money spent on conversion to an aircraft carrier was wasted. It was chaos caused by the impatience of the Army's upper echelons.

fontessa
Excellent info, Fontessa. I'd always wondered why the Kayaba autogyros didn't have Ki-numbers. I've seen that pic with Ki-76's on the carrier and never noticed the arrestor hooks before, good catch.

Were any of the Akitsu Maru's anti-sub patrols successful?
Did any of the Kayabas or Ki-76s sink any allied subs?
Were both types carried at the same time?

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