IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
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fontessa
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 25 Dec 2022 22:09

Eugen Pinak wrote:
25 Dec 2022 20:07
fontessa wrote:
25 Dec 2022 17:20
The lines on the front of the main wing were Drift Measurement Lines for a pilot. It was rare. These were usually written on the horizontal stabilizer for the backseat crew. The line spacing was probably 5 degrees, the same as the one written on the horizontal stabilizer.
Thank you for telling this, Fontessa. I've guessing about those lines for a long time.
Can you tell me, what are thety were used for? - To record drift of the plane for navigation purposes?
These lines were used to measure how far the plane was drifting due to crosswinds. I don't know the details either. Believe it or not, these lines were used as a reference to orient stationary objects in the ocean, such as white crests. Based on the results, it seems to know how much the plane was drifting using the "Drift Meter". I searched for "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)", but I could only find one for IJAAF. I believe IJNAF used a similar element. . .

I feel that the direction measurement of the original "stationary object" was a little rough, although it requires complicated calculations with the "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)". In the twin-engine planes case, it seems that "stationary object" could be measured more accurately. The 3rd photo shows type97 Drift Measuring Instrument on P1Y Ginga. The 4th shows Type3 of it.


偏流計 1.jpg

偏流計 2.jpg

97式偏流測定器.jpg

3式偏流測定器.jpg

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ijnfleetadmiral
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ijnfleetadmiral » 25 Dec 2022 23:45

Nice...explanations alongside the display in both Japanese and English! Random question: Does anyone know if the Kure Maritime Museum has done the same thing with their exhibits?
MSG, MS State Guard (Ret.) - First Always!

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fontessa
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 26 Dec 2022 08:23

ijnfleetadmiral wrote:
25 Dec 2022 23:45
Nice...explanations alongside the display in both Japanese and English! Random question: Does anyone know if the Kure Maritime Museum has done the same thing with their exhibits?
The 4th photo shows the exhibit by Nihon Kogaku, a manufacturer of Type3 Drift Meter, at a military equipment exhibition. I don't think Kure Yamato Museum display such an aviation device.


I found an IJNAF drift meter which looks like simpler than that of IJAAF. By manipulating (1) and (2) bars according to the speed of the plane for the bar (1) and the strength / the direction of the crosswind for the bar (2), the actual speed of the plane and the deviation angle of the course due to the crosswind can be obtained. Here, (2) required measurement results using the drift line measurement lines or Drift Measuring Instrument.

計算盤 0.jpg

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Last edited by fontessa on 26 Dec 2022 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

Eugen Pinak
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 26 Dec 2022 09:10

fontessa wrote:
25 Dec 2022 22:09
Eugen Pinak wrote:
25 Dec 2022 20:07
fontessa wrote:
25 Dec 2022 17:20
The lines on the front of the main wing were Drift Measurement Lines for a pilot. It was rare. These were usually written on the horizontal stabilizer for the backseat crew. The line spacing was probably 5 degrees, the same as the one written on the horizontal stabilizer.
Thank you for telling this, Fontessa. I've guessing about those lines for a long time.
Can you tell me, what are thety were used for? - To record drift of the plane for navigation purposes?
These lines were used to measure how far the plane was drifting due to crosswinds. I don't know the details either. Believe it or not, these lines were used as a reference to orient stationary objects in the ocean, such as white crests. Based on the results, it seems to know how much the plane was drifting using the "Drift Meter". I searched for "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)", but I could only find one for IJAAF. I believe IJNAF used a similar element. . .

I feel that the direction measurement of the original "stationary object" was a little rough, although it requires complicated calculations with the "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)". In the twin-engine planes case, it seems that "stationary object" could be measured more accurately. The 3rd photo shows type97 Drift Measuring Instrument on P1Y Ginga. The 4th shows Type3 of it.
fontessa - thank you very much. Thanks to your knowledge we've learned here so many obscure things related to Japanese military.

Also - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and all members of this forum!
Last edited by Eugen Pinak on 26 Dec 2022 09:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 26 Dec 2022 09:16

ijnfleetadmiral wrote:
25 Dec 2022 23:45
Nice...explanations alongside the display in both Japanese and English! Random question: Does anyone know if the Kure Maritime Museum has done the same thing with their exhibits?
All 4 Kure maritime museums have exhibition captions in both Japanese and English.
Yamato Museum is the best here (it even has an English audio-guides), JMSA Academy Museum is the worst (not surprising as there are almost no foreign tourists here... besides few maniacs like me :) ), Old Togo residence and JMSDF Museum are in between.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ijnfleetadmiral » 26 Dec 2022 09:28

Awesome! Now I want to visit them even more!
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fontessa
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 26 Dec 2022 19:58

Hello Eugen and ijnfleetadmiral,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you .

Do you know how American solved this navigation problem?

fontessa

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Takao
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Takao » 26 Dec 2022 21:35

The Americans(USAAF & USN) used several different types of drift meter/drift sight/drift guage ranging from the basic USN Pelorus Mark II to the Norden bomb sight.

Here is one type: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nthSD3tNVxw.

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fontessa
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by fontessa » 27 Dec 2022 15:34

Takao wrote:
26 Dec 2022 21:35
The Americans(USAAF & USN) used several different types of drift meter/drift sight/drift guage ranging from the basic USN Pelorus Mark II to the Norden bomb sight.

Here is one type: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nthSD3tNVxw.
Interesting. Thanks.

fontessa

Lethl215
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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Lethl215 » 27 Dec 2022 23:00

Looks like a whiz wheel

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 28 Dec 2022 05:59

fontessa wrote:
25 Dec 2022 22:09
These lines were used to measure how far the plane was drifting due to crosswinds. I don't know the details either. Believe it or not, these lines were used as a reference to orient stationary objects in the ocean, such as white crests. Based on the results, it seems to know how much the plane was drifting using the "Drift Meter". I searched for "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)", but I could only find one for IJAAF. I believe IJNAF used a similar element. . .

I feel that the direction measurement of the original "stationary object" was a little rough, although it requires complicated calculations with the "Drift Meter (Calculation Board)". In the twin-engine planes case, it seems that "stationary object" could be measured more accurately. The 3rd photo shows type97 Drift Measuring Instrument on P1Y Ginga. The 4th shows Type3 of it.
fontessa
More excellent info and pics, as usual. Thank you Fontessa. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and has a Happy New Year!

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 30 Dec 2022 09:26

fontessa wrote:
26 Dec 2022 19:58
Hello Eugen and ijnfleetadmiral,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you .


fontessa
Thank you!
I wish you all the best for the coming year!

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 27 Jun 2023 23:29

Eugen Pinak wrote:
03 Jul 2022 07:53
ShindenKai wrote:
01 Jul 2022 04:44
Eugen Pinak wrote:
30 Jun 2022 12:00
Yes, me and my co-author covered them too. As well as all other seaplane carriers, both converted and purpose-built.
Unfortunately the book is in Russian.
You can see cover and some pages here at my Dream: https://eugen-pinak.dreamwidth.org/39918.html
Unfortunately, the images of the book itself aren't working on my end (maybe pc settings-I need to figure out). But the auto-translations of adjoining info is VERY interesting! I have much reading ahead me! Love your work! -I didn't see much on the midget subs, maybe I just haven't found the right link within the link, yet. Is your book drawing/illustration/picture heavy?? The other images in that thread link show up just fine, pics/drawings I haven't seen before. GREAT STUFF! Thank you!! I NEED TO GET YOUR BOOK.
It's a pity. Here are couple links I've found with photos of some pages from my book. Drawings are not shown, unfortunately.

https://violity.com/109335794-v-sidoren ... oj-mirovoj

https://meshok.net/uk/item/58040308_102 ... 1%82%D0%B0
ShindenKai wrote:
01 Jul 2022 04:44
I'm very curious about the "speedboats Ko & Otsu" any further info?
You mean a cover name for midget submarines?
There is an appendix in our book about them.
ShindenKai wrote:
01 Jul 2022 04:44
P.S.-It looks like the Japanese were far beyond everyone else in regards to amphibious assault ships, definitely the inspiration for modern ships.
Indeed.

BTW, some posts from my co-author of this book about IJA landing ships. In Russian but I hope Google-translate will help here.
"Shinshi Maru" - https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/51640.html
"Akitsu Maru" - https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/51846.html
"Kumano Maru" - https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/52047.html
I just noticed in this link https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/52047.html
That you mention 34 Type4 (Ki-84) Hayate fighters could be carried aboard the Kumano Maru?! Was this actually ever done? Were they only meant to take-off from the ship and land elsewhere?? Was this planned only?? I have not previously heard of carrier-based Hayate fighters.

Excellent work!

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by Eugen Pinak » 28 Jun 2023 08:09

ShindenKai wrote:
27 Jun 2023 23:29

I just noticed in this link https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/52047.html
That you mention 34 Type4 (Ki-84) Hayate fighters could be carried aboard the Kumano Maru?! Was this actually ever done? Were they only meant to take-off from the ship and land elsewhere?? Was this planned only?? I have not previously heard of carrier-based Hayate fighters.
Standard air group of "Kumano Maru" was 8 Ki-76 light aniti-submarine aircraft.
35 Ki-84 fighters (17 in the hangar and 18 on flying deck) could be carrier in aircraft transport configuration. They can't be used operationally.
And I have no information if ship's arresting gear was strong enough to allow operation of large aircraft. Though I think it was good enough to operate carrier version of Ki-43, designed late war.

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Re: IJN Armed Merchant Cruisers

Post by ShindenKai » 30 Jun 2023 19:20

Eugen Pinak wrote:
28 Jun 2023 08:09
ShindenKai wrote:
27 Jun 2023 23:29

I just noticed in this link https://sidorenko-vl.livejournal.com/52047.html
That you mention 34 Type4 (Ki-84) Hayate fighters could be carried aboard the Kumano Maru?! Was this actually ever done? Were they only meant to take-off from the ship and land elsewhere?? Was this planned only?? I have not previously heard of carrier-based Hayate fighters.
Standard air group of "Kumano Maru" was 8 Ki-76 light aniti-submarine aircraft.
35 Ki-84 fighters (17 in the hangar and 18 on flying deck) could be carrier in aircraft transport configuration. They can't be used operationally.
And I have no information if ship's arresting gear was strong enough to allow operation of large aircraft. Though I think it was good enough to operate carrier version of Ki-43, designed late war.
Thank you for the extra info, didn't know there was also a carried-based Ki-43, thank you again!

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