Manchukuo empire

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 27 Aug 2003 14:39

There were 4,000 White Russians under arms in the Manchurian Army.Many were also trained in sabotage and scouting activities for potential use if fighting broke out with the Soviets.This was the potential threat that the army faced.Harbin,with its large Russian community,was a good recruiting ground,and as well had a Russian police force for the colony there.

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 27 Aug 2003 16:10

was harbin in manchukuo? what was the chinese population of manchukuo? what was the white russian population of manchukuo? what was the japanese civillian population of manchukuo? and finally. the total number of japanese troops in china, and how many of those were stationed in manchukuo?

were white russians allowed to be citizens of manchukuo? the propaganda book i have from the mid 1930's shows many white russians in obviously posed photos, but none the less, they are there.

does anyone have photos of white russians in the manchukuo army?

were japanese colonists given dual citizenship? did the puppet state have a parliament? (obviously it would have been a rubber stamp one)

was a chinese police force recruited, or was it strictly japanese?

great photos and information. thank you.

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Mait
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Post by Mait » 27 Aug 2003 16:41

Nice photos Windward. But do You have some bigger ones? I mean these are most interesting but really small.

Best Regards,

Mait.

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 28 Aug 2003 00:47

Soviet troops enter Harbin in 1945,greeted by 2nd Generation White Russians who obviously had no idea of the Gulag.

From Corbis.com

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2003 02:44

there is a great book worth looking looking over on this topic. "manchoukuo,a pictorial record" by asahi photo service, tokyo asahi shimbun, tokyo, japan. published 1934. the book is a work of propaganda, but stil extremely interesting. unfortunatley, i don't own a scanner, but the book deals with the white russian population of the puppet state.

harbin had a huge population of white russians. the most fashionable street in the city was kitaiskaya blvd, a street that was more european russian than anything else. the photos show fashionable russian women shooping at the expensive clothing, shoe, and jewelry shops which lined the boulevard.

harbin also had large russian orthodox churches, church sponsored orphanges, and schools. there was an all male white russian military school and included in the book are photos of sharply dressed cadets drilling on the school's parade ground.

cinema's showing european and american films, resturants owned by chinese, japanese, and russians were everywhere. harbin was the center of the white russian community in manchukuo.

the government ministries were huge, ornate buildings that looked like across between traditional asian architecture and bauhaus. all this mixed in with the european style buildings and russian orthodox churches of the white russian colony, the japanese colonists quarter, and the native manchu houses.

the empire of manchunkuo covered 460,000 square miles and the manchukou emperor officially ruled over 30 million people. so this was a huge puppet empire for the japanese to control.

the japanese were also shipping in millions of japanese colonists. there were japanese schools and colleges, and the native manchu students were required to study the japanese language. the japanese managed and worked in huge textile mills, factories and even had farms of their own. the japanese introduced cotton into manchuria and it rapidly became a major crop.

the japanese also had a program of rapid industrialization and operated, in 1933, the largest open coal pit in the world, located in the manchukuo. the books i have on manchukuo show the the massive scale and huge investmant the japanese were making in northern china. the japanese planned on staying forever.

the one point that the japanese authors of the book make is in some ways a good one. the league of nations refused to recognize the legitmacy of manchukuo. the american government also refused to recognize it diplomatically, along with many other western nations. the japanese argued, i think very well, that what they had done was no different than what the british had done in india, or they americans had done in the phillipines, built an empire. the japanese wrote that as long as the "white man's burden" stayed "white", colonization was alright. what upset the west was that a "yellow" race had taken on the same "burden'. as far as the japanese were concerned, the empire of manchukuo was being assited by the japanese government much the same way india was "assited" by the british. the empire of manchukuo had the chinese emperor, and british india and the mogul emperor(by that time diposed by british) and numerous majharajai's and other india princelings, all owing alliance to the british crown. why not have a nation owe alliance to an asian crown? a good point. if you believe in colonialism, and in 1933, most western nations did.

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2003 02:59

how were the native chinese treated by the japanese? were the average japanese colonist and native chinese on friendly terms? was there open hostility between them? were white russians ever granted citizenship in manchukuo?

i am still looking for photos of the manchukuo puppet army. i have still not found any photos of the white russian mercenaries in the puppet army.also, any photos of the puppet state's airforce would be appreciated.

does anyone know the fate of the white russian population after 1945? were they all shipped back to russia?

did the soviets annex more chinese territory after 1945?

who were the leaders of the white russians in harbin? does anyone have photos of them?

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 28 Aug 2003 04:35

There was a Russian Fascist Union formed in Harbin in the mid 1930s.Anti-semitic it forced many of the Russian Jews in the city to flee to Shanghai.By 1945 there was around 150,000 White Russians in Harbin,including 10,000 Jewish Russians.A General Gregory Semenoff commanded its military wing.

A link to the fate of the White Russians of Harbin.At least half of them got out to the West,expelled by the Chinese Communists as 'undesirables'.Many of the Jewish populace ended up in Australia.Only 20 or so aged White Russians still live in Harbin.

http://north-korea.narod.ru/immigrants.htm

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2003 04:53

one point the article makes is that one half of the white russians were expelled to the west. the other half ended up being shipped back to russia, and being filtered through the russian gulag system.

today 13,500 ethnic russians still live in china. the pre 1945 white russian population of china was 250,000.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 28 Aug 2003 14:48

joel pacheco wrote:was harbin in manchukuo?

Yes. It's the largest city in North Manchuria, and the second largest city of Manchutia (the first was Feng Tian, or Mukden, or Shen Yang). It is also a major railway junction. Its population was 680,000 in 1941. You can find that city in any world atlas.

what was the chinese population of manchukuo? what was the white russian population of manchukuo? what was the japanese civillian population of manchukuo?

Chinese: 29,19,800(1931), 31,238,500(1936)
Japanese: 240,000(1931), and 870,000 in 1939 (I said 3 million in another thread, but I mistake, the number of 3 million was a immigration plan for twenty years)
Russian: about 70,000 (1913, Japanese Foreign Ministry), and nearly 130,000 in 1939. Most of them live in Harbin.


and finally. the total number of japanese troops in china, and how many of those were stationed in manchukuo?

They were two different systems. The military force in Manchuria was called as Kantougun or "Kwantung Army". It's an elite military force commanded by Kantoujo governor(Kantoujo/Kwantung was a Japanese occupied area, including Dalian and Port Arthur). Its number was 850,000 in 1938 and 730,000 in Dec 1941. The military force in mainland China was called as "Shina Haikengun"(Armies send into China), the number was 620,000 in 1941, and its elite units were transfered to the Japanese army which attack in Southeast Asia (Nan hou gun).


were white russians allowed to be citizens of manchukuo?

Yes. but obviously they prefered their old Imperial Russian passports. White Russians were not astricted or confined by Japanese, but some soviet spies pretended as white Russians, so they were watched more tightly.


does anyone have photos of white russians in the manchukuo army?

I tried these days, but find none. A lot of historical photos and pictures of Manchukuo and KMT era were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. I'm still looking for it.


were japanese colonists given dual citizenship? did the puppet state have a parliament? (obviously it would have been a rubber stamp one)

Its name was "Li Fa Yuan", or "Legislative Court". And it WAS a rubber stamp. :D


was a chinese police force recruited, or was it strictly japanese?

Chinese (or Manchurian more correctly) police force, Japanese Kantougun Military Police and SMR(South Manchurian Railways) police were three police forces of Manchuria, and Kantougun MP was most powerful. Manchurian police took charge of civil and criminal cases, and MP took charge of counterspy and state prisoners. SMR police took charge of railway and immigration security and safe guard.

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Post by Windward » 28 Aug 2003 15:07

Moulded wrote:White Russians who obviously had no idea of the Gulag


Jawohl... and most of them went there after 1945. The Russian community in Harbin was drastically destroyed by red army and they never come back. Execution were held in Harbin soviet army headquarters every day.

There were another group of Russians in Manchuria before 1935, the soviet staff of North Manchurian Railway (a branch of Siberian Railway), and their wives, children. Those poor guys went back after Manchuria purchased the railway at the price of 170 million rubles in 1934, and some of them entered Gulag too.

"kitaiskaya" = "Chinese" in Russian language.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 28 Aug 2003 15:27

Kantougun Headquarters, from a Japanes album

for more internal photos:

http://members.tripod.co.jp/ijan/kantougun.htm
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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2003 16:11

there was a chinese princess, i'm not sure what ethnicity(han, hakka, manchu, etc.) but her father had been a puppet ruler of mongolia during ww1 and the early 1920's. he sent his daughter to japan to be educated. the mongolian warlord sent her to live with a japanese noble family. the girl managed to sleep not only with the japanese nobleman but also his son. after her academic schooling finished, she trained and became a airplane pilot. later she returned to china and joined the party circuit and happily collabrorated with the japanese army.

she was friends with the manchukuo empress. i believe a charater based on her was in the bertolucci movie as the empress's lover.

i can't remember her name.

i know she flew bombing raids on shanghai for the japanese, smoked opium, and was bi sexual.

after the war ended, she was captured in shanghai and executed as a national traitor. i'm not sure id the nationalists killed her or the reds.

what was her name? does anyone have a photo of her? is this biographical information correct?

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Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2003 16:19

i am still interested to hear how the native manchu got along with the japanese colonists. i know the native manchu's were required to study the japanese language in school. was the emperor pu yi popular with the manchu natives? did the avergae manchu cinese feel oppressed by the japanese? how do the manchu's view the puppet state today? do the elderly chinese who worked for the manchukuo goverment get any kind of pension today from the chinese state? does the japanese government do anything for ex-manchukuo civil servents/soldiers still living in manchuria today?(pensions?)

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Post by Windward » 28 Aug 2003 17:02

joel pacheco wrote:there was a chinese princess, i'm not sure what ethnicity(han, hakka, manchu, etc.) but her father had been a puppet ruler of mongolia during ww1 and the early 1920's. he sent his daughter to japan to be educated. the mongolian warlord sent her to live with a japanese noble family. the girl managed to sleep not only with the japanese nobleman but also his son. after her academic schooling finished, she trained and became a airplane pilot. later she returned to china and joined the party circuit and happily collabrorated with the japanese army.
....
what was her name? does anyone have a photo of her? is this biographical information correct?


her name was Yoshiko Kawashima, Chinese name Jin Bi Hui, or Aisinjuiro Xian Yu (her Manchu name). Her father was not a Mongol noble, but a Manchu Prince, Aisinjuiro Shan Qi, Prince of Su. The Mongol noble you talked was her fater-in-law. And she did not live in a noble family, but a ronin (former samurai) family. Her foster father Naniwa Kawashima was a ronin.

Image


was the emperor pu yi popular with the manchu natives?

Of course yes.

did the avergae manchu cinese feel oppressed by the japanese?

Yes.

how do the manchu's view the puppet state today?

It's difficult to describe. you can see the thread about Korean and Taiwanese in Japanese Army which I mentioned above. generally people consider Manchukuo was a puppet state and was ruled by Japanese, people living in a miserable condition. But some old and young people of Manchuria tend to appraise Manchukuo better in present years, for their life even get worse in the last decade.

do the elderly chinese who worked for the manchukuo goverment get any kind of pension today from the chinese state?

Not today. Premier Zhang Jing Hui and ministers were arrested by soviet army, delivered to communist China and entered prison in 1950s, and most of them were released in the 1960s. Functionaries and staffers were not arrested usually, unless he was an officer of police, millitary, intelligence or MP system.

does the japanese government do anything for ex-manchukuo civil servents/soldiers still living in manchuria today?(pensions?)

Nothing, for diplomatic reason.

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Post by Windward » 28 Aug 2003 17:38

more photos of Yoshiko. I scanned them from an old Chinese book "Puppet Manchuria", and the pictures are not very clear.
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