Tiger tank for Japan?

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
User avatar
Musashi
Member
Posts: 4656
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 15:07
Location: Coventry, West Midlands, the UK [it's one big roundabout]

Tiger tank for Japan?

Post by Musashi » 29 Dec 2004 22:24

I was watching a film few years ago where I found out Japanese bought German Tiger I tank for 600,000 RM and it was planned to be delivered in parts by a German U-boot. I heard it was delivered and the U-boot's commander was rewarded with a samurai sword for his mission. He was one of three Germans rewarded with samurai swords during WW II.
Some my friends on a Polish historical forum don't agree with that. They claim the Tiger was sold, but not delivered. The microfilms with its plans were delivered only. According to one of guys the exactly price of the Tiger was 645,000 RM.
Please write what you know about this matter.

Regards,
Chris

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 6965
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Post by Michael Kenny » 29 Dec 2004 22:54

This Tiger was paid for and sent to Bordeaux for shipment to Japan. However common sense prevailed and it was given as a gift to sSS PzAbt 101 instead. It was used in Normandy. The chassis number of the purchased model was 250455 and thus it would be a rubber wheel model. This would give SS 101 a total of 19 rubber wheel Tigers rather than 20 as Schneider says in TIC II.

User avatar
Musashi
Member
Posts: 4656
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 15:07
Location: Coventry, West Midlands, the UK [it's one big roundabout]

Post by Musashi » 29 Dec 2004 23:18

Thank you, Michael.
Do you know about these Tiger's plans? Were they delivered or not?

Regards,
Chris

Helmut Von Moltke
Banned
Posts: 250
Joined: 29 Dec 2004 05:14
Location: Germany

Re: Tiger tank for Japan?

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » 31 Dec 2004 05:28

Musashi wrote:I was watching a film few years ago where I found out Japanese bought German Tiger I tank for 600,000 RM and it was planned to be delivered in parts by a German U-boot. I heard it was delivered and the U-boot's commander was rewarded with a samurai sword for his mission. He was one of three Germans rewarded with samurai swords during WW II.
Some my friends on a Polish historical forum don't agree with that. They claim the Tiger was sold, but not delivered. The microfilms with its plans were delivered only. According to one of guys the exactly price of the Tiger was 645,000 RM.
Please write what you know about this matter.

Regards,
Chris
There is a Japanese cartoon book with a delivered Tiger atnk in action against British in Pacific war

Helmut Von Moltke
Banned
Posts: 250
Joined: 29 Dec 2004 05:14
Location: Germany

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » 31 Dec 2004 05:30

Did any German soldiers fight with Japanese army in WWII Pacific war?

Mikko H.
Financial supporter
Posts: 1655
Joined: 07 May 2003 10:19
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by Mikko H. » 31 Dec 2004 07:43

No, but there was a number of U-boats operating from Singapore -- or was it Penang in Malaysia? -- in Indian Ocean (Operation Monsoon).

User avatar
Lt.-Colonel
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 23:24
Location: Croatia,Zagreb

Post by Lt.-Colonel » 31 Dec 2004 09:18

Don't forget the German privateer ships as Kormoran and Albatros. They penetrated as far as eastern part of the Indian Ocean, and even further east.

User avatar
Unsere_Freiheit
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 11:18
Location: HK

Post by Unsere_Freiheit » 01 Jan 2005 08:49

Helmut Von Moltke:

Is that Japanese cartoon drawn by Motofumi Kobayashi?
I have several of his cartoon books but not that 'Tiger tank in Japan' one,because I considered it too much like a 'fantasy'.

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15326
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Post by Andy H » 01 Jan 2005 13:02

One must wonder about the practicalities of a 60ton tank in the jungle or stuck on a island atoll. Think I would rather be in a bunker.

It may have had some purpose in China I suppose

Andy H

User avatar
ancientcoins
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: 27 Apr 2004 09:27
Location: Zhengzhou China

Post by ancientcoins » 01 Jan 2005 16:03

Based on the fact that both army of ROC and the Communist Party of China had very few heavy weapons especially tanks,the Tiger to be sent to Japan would have no rivals in the battlefield of China.M4 Shermans,M5 and some other old Russian light tanks in Kuomintang army will not be able to survive the hit of its 8.8cm bounds!!

User avatar
Unsere_Freiheit
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 11:18
Location: HK

Post by Unsere_Freiheit » 01 Jan 2005 16:23

I agree,but a single Tiger is not invincible when it comes across
i) fighter-bombers or bombers
ii) artillery
iii) Chinese dare-death squads.
iiii) ambushes ,there're lots of forests in China,not only plain fields.

and is it worthy for a Tiger to police the occupied areas? Given that you cannot deploy the Tiger in the Burma forests,and for dealing with Chinese troops, other lighter armored vehicles would be enough as it has been stated above that both Communist and Nationalist armies had very little amount of heavy weapons and tanks.

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15326
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Post by Andy H » 01 Jan 2005 23:29

Based on the fact that both army of ROC and the Communist Party of China had very few heavy weapons especially tanks,the Tiger to be sent to Japan would have no rivals in the battlefield of China.M4 Shermans,M5 and some other old Russian light tanks in Kuomintang army will not be able to survive the hit of its 8.8cm bounds!!
No one is arguing about its capabilities in knocking out other tanks, though Shermans & T34/85's could disable Tigers if they got close enough, and off course many were disabled by hand held infantry weapons. Also if the Allies came up against Tigers in numbers they would employ the weapons which it did historically to destroy it.

No the real point is that practically the Tiger in Asia would have been a liability. Expensive to produce, high maintenance, fuel gussling, on and unsuitable terrain.

Andy H

Gustav_SC
Member
Posts: 175
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 05:45
Location: Charleston, SC, USA

Post by Gustav_SC » 11 Feb 2005 08:45

U-Boats operated in the Indian Ocean from bases in Singapore, Penang, Batavia (now Jakarta) and Surabaya. Only one U-Boat entered the Pacific, sailing as far as New Zealand. Was it U-852? I could be wrong, that's from memory.

When the Germans surrendered, German crewmen present in these Japanese-held locations were interned, along with their boats. In Indonesia, some ended up fighting it out with pro-independence Indonesians who saw any whites as the enemy.

User avatar
PPoS
Member
Posts: 848
Joined: 22 Sep 2004 12:35
Location: Sweden

Post by PPoS » 11 Feb 2005 15:02

The truth was that the Tiger cost 300,000 RM but the german charged the japanese with 645,000 RM.

Simon Gunson
Member
Posts: 750
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 00:25
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Post by Simon Gunson » 18 Apr 2005 04:15

Musashi there were a few U-boats capable of this feat including some Italian boats which became UIT-22, UIT-24, UIT-25 after Italy's surrender. U-219 and U-195 could have performed the feat. Other U-boats to Asia were fighting U-boats unsuited to cargo carrying. I would be fascinated to know any more about this. Remember though that by 1944 Japan was really struggling to get oil shipments from Brunei and Indonesia due to US sub activity.

Return to “Japan at War 1895-1945”