Japanese Pearl Harbor sub found

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Marcus
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Japanese Pearl Harbor sub found

Post by Marcus » 29 Aug 2002 18:53

Image
A historic Japanese submarine has been discovered on the ocean floor a few miles from Pearl Harbor.
The 78-foot (24-metre) submarine could provide the first physical evidence to back US claims that it fired first against Japan in World War II and inflicted the first casualties
The sub fell prey to a US Navy destroyer on 7 December 1941, the day of the Pearl Harbor attack.
"It's the shot that started World War II between the Americans and the Japanese," said John Wiltshire, associate director of the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which discovered the sub.
The research team found the Japanese vessel at a depth of 1,200 feet (366 metres) while out on a training exercise.
It is thought to contain the remains of two Japanese crewmen.
The vessel was one of four Japanese midget submarines to participate in the Pearl Harbor attack.
The newly discovered sub was believed to be the one sunk by the destroyer USS Ward more than an hour before the attack.
...
Terry Kerby, who piloted the deep-diving submersible that found the submarine, said the sub was in excellent condition.
"To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realising that this was the shot that started the Pacific war," he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2223256.stm

/Marcus

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subskipper
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Post by subskipper » 29 Aug 2002 19:47

Very interesting! Thanks for the link Marcus.



~Henric Edwards

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T.R.Searle
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Post by T.R.Searle » 29 Aug 2002 23:29

I saw that on the news an hour ago,never said all of that interesting information though :wink:

T.R.Searle :)

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Annelie
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Post by Annelie » 30 Aug 2002 14:54

Yes, interesting.

It has been told over the years that one hour before Pearl Harbour that this sinking of the sub took place but it was ignored.

The question is now did the US really know ahead that Pearl Harbour would take place and did nothing to ensure its participation in the war?

Annelie

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subskipper
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Post by subskipper » 30 Aug 2002 20:57

Annelie wrote:Yes, interesting.

It has been told over the years that one hour before Pearl Harbour that this sinking of the sub took place but it was ignored.

The question is now did the US really know ahead that Pearl Harbour would take place and did nothing to ensure its participation in the war?

Annelie
I'm not veru well versed in the matter, but the thought of sacrificing 1000's of US servicemen for the opportunity to participate in a war that the country obviously wasn't prepared to fight seems a little too cynical. And besides, how could FDR be so certain that the US would be on the winning side? Just some thoughts. :)


~Henric Edwards

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Zachary
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Post by Zachary » 30 Aug 2002 21:29

Its interesting how it was just found now, not before. Still I think that finding of such obscurity is very interesting and should deserve more media attention.
Regards,
Zachary

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 12 Sep 2002 13:48

More photos and videos can be found here: http://imina.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/midget.html

/Marcus

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The Desert Fox
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Australian Media and the discovered Sub - What Sub?

Post by The Desert Fox » 12 Sep 2002 15:13

Alas the Australian media hasnt even considered it worth a mention. :roll:

Thank god for forrums like this :D

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The Desert Fox

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Psycho Mike
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Found japanese sub

Post by Psycho Mike » 15 Sep 2002 22:27

:lol:

If Japan lost a sub before Pearl Harbor- then it wasn't a surprise?

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col. klink
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Pearl Harbor

Post by col. klink » 16 Sep 2002 23:08

It would have been a surprise to the crew. Suppose the US knew they were coming, what should they have done? Do you put the fleet to sea and risk loossing ships in deepwater where they can't be repaired? If the Japanese attack and don't find the fleet in port would they attack the fuel and repair facilities, targets which were more valuable and would have slowed the US effort in the Pacific for at the very least a half year? If the US is prepared doesn't that risk revealing the Japanese codes were compromised? Would a failure at Pearl Harbor cause the Japanes to reconsider a stronger land effort on mainland Asia? But for the casualties the US suffered, I think the outcome of Pearl Harbor may have been the best the US could have expected. I've also read that most of the civillian damage, I guess what we call collateral damage these days, in Honolulu was the result of US anti aircraft fire. Has anyone else read this and is it true?

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Psycho Mike
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If December 7th was no surprise

Post by Psycho Mike » 19 Sep 2002 20:29

There is an Admirals family that needs to know he was not to blame for Pearl Harbor, and that Admiral deserves to have his name cleared.
I too have heard the civilian casualties were from friendly fire. Don't know if that is true or not.

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 02 Oct 2002 17:19

This episode was recreated in the film Tora! Tora! Tora! in the 1970's. The U.S. destroyer Ward fired on and depth charged the midget sub. The Ward radioed a report, but a senior captain disbelieved the report because a) there had been many false sightings before and b) the Ward's captain was newly-promoted and lacked experience. Thus there was no alert.

It wasn't reported to Admiral Kimmel until just before the Japanese air attack. Kimmel's reaction was to drive down to his headquarters before deciding what action to take (he still didn't connect the sub action with a possible air attack.) But before he could reach his HQ, the Japanese air attack was already underway.

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col. klink
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Pearl Harbor

Post by col. klink » 04 Oct 2002 02:13

Weren't some of the mini-subs already recovered? I've seen a picture of one of them that became beached. I believe the man who became pow #1 was a crew member who tried to scuttle it but passed out and was found on the beach. I seem to remember it was taken around the US later for war bond rallies. I've also seen a picture that was dated from 1961 of a mini-sub that had been raised from the floor of Pearl Harbor. Both of these pictures are in my 1967 American edition of Japanese Warships of World War II by A. J. Watts, on the pages about the Type A subs. I guess the new find confirms the Ward's reports, the one in the picture from 1961 might be of one of the one or two that may have actually gotten into the Harbor and may have fired torpedos and hit something. That has been speculated but never confirmed. But I still don't see how the Ward's action would be proof that FDR and Marshall and whoever else had proir knowledge of the coming attack.
"If I were in charge in Washington I would relieve Kimmel at once. It doesn't make any difference why a man fails in the Navy, he has failed." Adm. Husband E. Kimmel to two staff members after the Pearl Harbor attack.

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ShindenKai
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Re: Japanese Pearl Harbor sub found

Post by ShindenKai » 23 Nov 2013 00:11

For those that have doubts about how much the US military knew before the Pearl Harbor Attack, read Burl Burlingame's Advance Force Pearl Harbor. We knew and let it happen. Period.

On another note..color footage of wrecked factories and most importantly- Koryu Midget subs, a destroyer and aicraft carrier (both are involved repatriation duties)

http://research.archives.gov/description/64472

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rhbN9NOSag

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LWD
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Re: Japanese Pearl Harbor sub found

Post by LWD » 25 Nov 2013 18:26

ShindenKai wrote:For those that have doubts about how much the US military knew before the Pearl Harbor Attack, read Burl Burlingame's Advance Force Pearl Harbor. We knew and let it happen. Period.
The vast majority of the evidence does not support that conclusion. Indeed the only evidence I've seen that does is very circumstantial and has been brought to question quite successfully.

This is hardly on topic for this thread hwoever.

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