Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Kelvin » 14 Sep 2019 14:11

I found German had a occupation accounts in Banque de France, the Nederlandsche Bank, The National bank of Belgium and Norges Bank to cover ist occupation cost and enabled German to buy weapon and civilisan good, did they also have same account in Greece and Yugoslavia ?

And Denmark still maintained its goverment, did they Need to pay German occupation cost ? Thank

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1309
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by DrG » 15 Sep 2019 01:10

Germany and Italy had occupation accounts at the Bank of Greece. By the end of the war, the total of the occupation costs amounted to 7,887,227 gold British pounds (due to inflation, the amount in drachmas was astronomical, with 15 digits), of which 2,213,954 £ for the Italian costs and 5,673,273 £ for the German ones.

Yugoslavia had been subjected to debellatio and therefore ceased to exist, being divided into three new states (Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro) and areas annexed by Germany, Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria and Albania. I assume that Germany imposed occupation costs on Serbia, while I am not aware of the economic treatment applied to Croatia for the German and Italian allied troops stationing on its territory.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Kelvin » 15 Sep 2019 05:59

DrG wrote:
15 Sep 2019 01:10
Germany and Italy had occupation accounts at the Bank of Greece. By the end of the war, the total of the occupation costs amounted to 7,887,227 gold British pounds (due to inflation, the amount in drachmas was astronomical, with 15 digits), of which 2,213,954 £ for the Italian costs and 5,673,273 £ for the German ones.

Yugoslavia had been subjected to debellatio and therefore ceased to exist, being divided into three new states (Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro) and areas annexed by Germany, Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria and Albania. I assume that Germany imposed occupation costs on Serbia, while I am not aware of the economic treatment applied to Croatia for the German and Italian allied troops stationing on its territory.
Hi, DrG, thank for your data in Greece, very helpful. German received 6.8 Billion drachmas in 1941 currency Ration and Italy gained 2.65 Billion drachmas.

Yes, I also think German impose occupation cost on Serbia but find no data.

Croatia was considered as " ally" German had used its Manpower to build 369,373 and 392.infanterie divisions.

If Poland became the General Government, that mean also no occupation cost ? As I know, Polish had transfered US$87 Million Gold reserves abroad during 1939 Campaign.

But I see German depended upon Danish pork and butter Export, is it Danish use both Export to Offset occupation cost ? Thank

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1309
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by DrG » 15 Sep 2019 15:07

We should not mix occupation costs and import-export balances, which are two distinct things. Of course, if the occupying power had a debt balance in its trade with the occupied country, then occupation costs might (and often had) be offset, but it was not automatic. Sometimes, again, an occupying power might prefer to import goods from the occupied country without compensation in place of imposing occupation costs, but it was not the standard for Germany during WW2.

In the presence of an enemy government in the occupied territories, the costs were defined by an agreement (often extorted) with this one and could be covered either by the opening of a line of credit at the central bank (if present) or by the issue of occupation currency, which was recorded as a liability of the enemy central bank if it was issued by it or it was forced to recognize it as its liability if it was issued by another institution created by the occupying power. There were also several other methods like, for example, the payment by the government of the occupied country, which in turn had to fund itself by collecting taxes; yet, in wartime, most of occupied governments financed themselves by mere monetization of deficit, i.e. by making use of central banks liabilities (banknotes or accounts opened at the central bank) or directly issuing currency.

In territories without an enemy central bank, the occupying power issued occupation currency by making use of ad hoc issuing banks/institutions, such as the Emissionbank in Polen, the Reichskreditkassen or the Cassa Mediterranea di Credito, or even without an ad hoc issuing body (such as it happened with Allied military currency). Almost surely (and it actually happened with the Allied Military currency in Italy) the value of this money would have been covered, after the war, by the defeated peoples.

Moreover, also allied countries often paid for the military assistance provided by their allies, so I wouldn't rule out that Croatia did so with Germany. For example there was an agreement about a net payment of the balance of the military costs paid for German troops in Italy and North Africa and Italian troops on the Eastern Front. When the cost of the latter ones became higher than that of the German ones, the Germans broke the agreement (26 June 1942). It was an example of bad faith, which retorted on the Germans anyway, given that since the occupation of Tunisia in November 1942 the German costs became much higher than the Italian ones. On 15 August 1943 another agreement was signed, and it was this one that made the juridical basis for the German military costs paid by the Italian Social Republic till the end of the war.

This German book, in two volumes, should provide an answer to most of your questions, but I have only read references to it and not the book itself: Dieter Eichholtz, "Geschichte der deutschen Kriegswirtschaft 1939-1945".

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Kelvin » 16 Sep 2019 08:20

Hello, DrG, thank for your Information.

I just find out in Website that Danmarks Nationalbank also had a occupation account for German with gurantee from Danish Government but just no amount for Details.

So Danish pork Export , as you said, is another matter.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Kelvin » 18 Sep 2019 04:54

Hi, DrG, I would like to ask you if any financial resources was taken over by German when they occupied Italy in Sept 1943

Regarding military resources, they took Italian captured weapon and also petroleum and munition factories of Ansaldo, FIAT, Beretta and Breda , but any gold and foreign reseves ? Thank

And BTW, do you have figures on occupation cost received by German from Danmarks Nationalbank ? Thank

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1309
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by DrG » 18 Sep 2019 14:59

The history of financial relations between the Italian Social Republic and the German Reich is quite complex, but it's covered by two very good books, i.e. Riccardo Lazzeri, "Economia e finanza nella RSI (1943-1945)" and Sergio Cardarelli, Renata Martano, "I nazisti e l'oro della Banca d'Italia. Sottrazione e recupero, 1943-1958", and other ones provide some information (like Luciano Luciani, "L'economia e la finanza italiana di guerra nel secondo conflitto mondiale").

In short:
- the German capture of Italian military equipment and civilian goods shortly after the armistice of 8 Sept. 1943 was balanced by a debit to the German account for military expenses equal to 3 billion liras;
- the aforementioned sum was just a drop in the sea and completely disproportionate if compared both to the captured materiel (if you are interested, there is a great book about the aircrafts taken by the Germans: Hans Werner Neulen, "Il Ricco Bottino/The Rich Booty. Italian Aircraft in Luftwaffe Service") and to the monthly amount paid to the German embassy for the German military and civilian expenses in Italy, i.e. 7 billion liras, then raised to 10 in 1944 and 12 in 1945 (grand total paid: 189 billions);
- the agreement of Fasano, signed on 5 Feb. 1944, allowed Germany to take about 50.5 t of Italian gold, of which 35.8 for military expenses, 5.4 for other Italian debts and 9.3 from former Yugoslav reserves, that Italy had captured in Montenegro and kept for itself instead of pooling it with the other Axis and successor countries which had taken part to the debellatio of that Kingdom;
- despite this agreement, the total of Italian gold taken to Germany in two tranches was of 49,634.659630 kg (29 Feb. 1944) plus 21,463.351183 kg (21 Oct. 1944);
- the Germans made also payments to Switzerland on behalf of Italy (both for pre- and post-armistice imports) using 23,388.780223 kg of Italian gold (20 Apr. 1944);
- given that the Italian gold reserves moved to Fortezza (16 Dec. 1943) in Alto Adige (South Tyrol, under German occupation and civil administration as part of the Operationszone Alpenvorland) were of 119,251.967623 kg, the amount recovered by the Allies on 17 May 1945 and returned to the Bank of Italy was of 24,765.176587 kg;
- of the gold taken to Germany, the "Gold pool" returned to Italy in 1949, 1958 and 1998 a total of 24,885.361 kg, therefore Italy lost 24,138.726 kg of gold.

I have no precise data about Italian foreign currency reserves, but they were almost completely depleted by 8 Sept. 1943.

I have no data for Denmark, I just know that Germany had a large clearing debt with that country (and with most of European countries, by the way), given its habit of using deficit in imports as a "disguised kind of plunder". On 7 July 1942 it amounted to 493,519,000 Reichsmarks (Paolo Fonzi, "La moneta del grande spazio", p. 334).

I make an appeal to anybody reading this thread: if they know a precise and documented book about the financial history of WW2, at least with regards to international payments both for commerce and occupation costs/reparations and about the forced transfers of currency and gold reserves, please let us know.

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1309
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by DrG » 18 Sep 2019 17:26

This book can be useful, but it doesn't deal with less advanced economies, such as Greece and Yugoslavia: Peter Liberman, "Does Conquest Pay? The Exploitation of Occupied Industrial Societies".

Dili
Member
Posts: 2068
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 22:54
Location: Lusitania

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Dili » 18 Sep 2019 18:59

This from memory but i think some papers in quaderni SISM might deal with financial aspects of the war.

Edit: my memory wasn't correct despite SISM touching economic aspects of war, it was this i was remembering:


http://www.reteparri.it/pubblicazioni/i ... =209%2F210

Italia Contemporanea Dic 1997 - Marzo 1998

Gli alleati dissonanti. L’Asse e i costi dell’occupazione della Grecia; Etmektsoglou, Gabriella

other topics there.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by Kelvin » 24 Sep 2019 04:12

DrG wrote:
18 Sep 2019 14:59
The history of financial relations between the Italian Social Republic and the German Reich is quite complex, but it's covered by two very good books, i.e. Riccardo Lazzeri, "Economia e finanza nella RSI (1943-1945)" and Sergio Cardarelli, Renata Martano, "I nazisti e l'oro della Banca d'Italia. Sottrazione e recupero, 1943-1958", and other ones provide some information (like Luciano Luciani, "L'economia e la finanza italiana di guerra nel secondo conflitto mondiale").

In short:
- the German capture of Italian military equipment and civilian goods shortly after the armistice of 8 Sept. 1943 was balanced by a debit to the German account for military expenses equal to 3 billion liras;
- the aforementioned sum was just a drop in the sea and completely disproportionate if compared both to the captured materiel (if you are interested, there is a great book about the aircrafts taken by the Germans: Hans Werner Neulen, "Il Ricco Bottino/The Rich Booty. Italian Aircraft in Luftwaffe Service") and to the monthly amount paid to the German embassy for the German military and civilian expenses in Italy, i.e. 7 billion liras, then raised to 10 in 1944 and 12 in 1945 (grand total paid: 189 billions);
- the agreement of Fasano, signed on 5 Feb. 1944, allowed Germany to take about 50.5 t of Italian gold, of which 35.8 for military expenses, 5.4 for other Italian debts and 9.3 from former Yugoslav reserves, that Italy had captured in Montenegro and kept for itself instead of pooling it with the other Axis and successor countries which had taken part to the debellatio of that Kingdom;
- despite this agreement, the total of Italian gold taken to Germany in two tranches was of 49,634.659630 kg (29 Feb. 1944) plus 21,463.351183 kg (21 Oct. 1944);
- the Germans made also payments to Switzerland on behalf of Italy (both for pre- and post-armistice imports) using 23,388.780223 kg of Italian gold (20 Apr. 1944);
- given that the Italian gold reserves moved to Fortezza (16 Dec. 1943) in Alto Adige (South Tyrol, under German occupation and civil administration as part of the Operationszone Alpenvorland) were of 119,251.967623 kg, the amount recovered by the Allies on 17 May 1945 and returned to the Bank of Italy was of 24,765.176587 kg;
- of the gold taken to Germany, the "Gold pool" returned to Italy in 1949, 1958 and 1998 a total of 24,885.361 kg, therefore Italy lost 24,138.726 kg of gold.

I have no precise data about Italian foreign currency reserves, but they were almost completely depleted by 8 Sept. 1943.

I have no data for Denmark, I just know that Germany had a large clearing debt with that country (and with most of European countries, by the way), given its habit of using deficit in imports as a "disguised kind of plunder". On 7 July 1942 it amounted to 493,519,000 Reichsmarks (Paolo Fonzi, "La moneta del grande spazio", p. 334).

I make an appeal to anybody reading this thread: if they know a precise and documented book about the financial history of WW2, at least with regards to international payments both for commerce and occupation costs/reparations and about the forced transfers of currency and gold reserves, please let us know.
Hi, DrG, thank a lot for your detailed Information. Regarding 189 Billion liras collected by German, did they also receive payment through occupation account in Bank of Italy ? Thank

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1309
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Re: Occupation account in Greece and Yugoslav

Post by DrG » 26 Sep 2019 15:07

Kelvin wrote:
24 Sep 2019 04:12
Hi, DrG, thank a lot for your detailed Information. Regarding 189 Billion liras collected by German, did they also receive payment through occupation account in Bank of Italy ? Thank
This was the payment for the occupation costs. Given that Germany was, formally, not an occupying power but an ally of the Italian Social Republic, the payment was made on the account of the German Embassy, but I don't know if it was opened at the Bank of Italy or any commercial bank (technically, it's an irrelevant detail, anyway).

Just for more precision, since 27 June 1941 the official exchange rate was 7.604 Liras per Mark. You can find all the historical exchange rates of the Italian Lira in this useful site of the Bank of Italy: https://tassidicambio.bancaditalia.it/timeSeries.

By the way, Dili has linked an excellent study on Axis occupation costs in Greece, even though it's in Italian you should try to read it. Otherwise, you might try to find the pdf of its author's PhD thesis, about this same topic and written in English: https://hellenic.princeton.edu/people/g ... mektsoglou.

Return to “Economy”