Who still owes what

[abc123]

Which countries are still paying off their WW2 debit and to which country they owe the money too.

[phylo_roadking]

Britain paid off her last $83.25 million to the U.S.A. on the 31st of December 2006...and simultaneously the last $22.7 of the loan it received from Canada in 1946.

HOWEVER...technically we actually STILL owe on our WWI debt! Herbert Hoover declared a moritorium on ALL WWI debts in 1931 during the financial crisis following the Stock market Crash of 1929...

Only ONE slight little problem...at the time Hoover declared the moritorium, OTHER countries owed BRITAIN more than WE owed the U.S.!!! So WE were never paid what WE were owed for monies we leant out in 1914-18!!!

However...Nixon, by executive order, forgave the Soviet Union's Lend-lease debt!!! I didn't know that til i went looking. Hell of gesture of goodwill

Apparently FRANCE still owes the U.S., but I don't know how much.

[Simon K]

I assume ex Imperial Russia owes the UK a fair bit too from WW1 Probably France more so. Ferguson - The Pity of War-
has a fair bit to say on how the Western Entene bankrolled the Imperial Russian war effort.

[bil]

I have read that Finland was the first to repay its war reparations,not exactly borrowed money but a debt still. ---bil

[Caractacus]

Finland certainly prides itself on having paid all of what was assessed for her regarding the payments to the Soviet Union. According to the relevant Wikipedia article (http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_sotakorvaukset), the reparations were approx. €4bn in 2003 values. From 1945-49 they swallowed 14% of the nation's income, and from 1950-52 (when the final reparation payments were made) still around 7%. This entry repeats the claim that Finland was the only nation to pay in full.

The pride is tinged with irritation that it was based upon the Soviet assertion that Finland began the Winter War and thus was culpable - something that was known to be false even during WWII, but was shown clearly to be fabricated when the archives were opened in the 90s (cf discussion on the Mainila Shots elsewhere on this forum: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... sd=a&hilit).

[Harri]

Finland paid 159 619 USD to USA in 1950. I'm not quite sure if that was the Finnish portion of the Imperial Russian debt of the WW I or from the US aid after the WW I.

The last war reparation train left Finland to USSR on 30.8.1952 although one schooner ship was given to Soviets on 18.9.1952 being the last war reparation delivery.

The situation between Germany and Finland is unclear. Finnish dept to Germany was included in the Soviet war reparation. Also all capital owned by German persons or German companies in Finland were given to Soviets. On the other hand German destroyed building and other infrastructure (roads, bridges, railways etc.) from large part of Finnish Lapland in 1944/45 and their reparations to Finland have never been paid.

After the war in the late 1940's at least British Bristol AIrcraft Company sent bills on the licence produced aircraft (Blenheim) and engines (Mercury). Annuity was added of course. These were not war reparations but their effect was about similar. These bills were paid.

----

US actually still holds islands and military bases all over the world mainly handed over by the British (and I think French too?) for free.

[Caractacus]

US actually still holds islands and military bases all over the world mainly handed over by the British (and I think French too?) for free.

These bases were for 99 years and in exchange for some 50 elderly but useful destroyers. I fully expect that the UK will extend the US's rights to the bases when the time comes up - and if I know the UK's brilliant negotiating skills with the US, they'll get almost nothing but promises of goodwill for that... *cynicism off*

The inevitable Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers ... _Agreement

[phylo_roadking]

Why would it be the UK that would renew any agreement?

Newfoundland (today part of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador).
Eastern side of the Bahamas
Southern coast of Jamaica
Western coast of St. Lucia,
West coast of Trinidad (Gulf of Paria)
Antigua
British Guiana (present day Guyana) within fifty miles of Georgetown

The world's geopolitics have moved on apace since 1940 - NONE of those are now in the purview of the British Government!

[Seppo Koivisto]

Paying its debts was probably Finland´s best PR gimmick in the USA ever.

http://www.bof.fi/en/suomen_pankki/ajan ... 112004.htm
http://www.finland.org/Public/default.a ... ture=en-US

Finland borrowed just over eight million dollars between 1918 and 1920 to ease acute post war food shortages. Finland agreed to repay the loans over a 62-year period, with an interest rate of 3% for the first ten years, and 3.5 % thereafter.

Finland’s reputation as a reliable debtor was established in 1933, when Finland paid the food loan it had obtained from the United States in 1919, in full and on time. Finland was the United States’ only debtor country that continued to pay its war-related debt until the end.

Finland continued to meet regular instalments until the 1940s, when a few years’ moratorium was called because of World War II. At that time, Finnish and US authorities also discussed whether it would be possible to invest the money repaid by Finland into something that would benefit Finland. This aim was met through the ASLA grant fund and Fulbright Centre established at the beginning of the 1950s. The last payment on the debt was made in accordance with a renewed, faster schedule in 1976.

Finland had its own monetary and banking systems already during the imperial Russian time. I wonder if the Finnish debts were also separate from the Russian ones?

And our British friends?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

[Andy H]

From Seppo's link:-

And if it seems strange to the non-economist that WWII debts are still knocking around after 60 years, there are debts that predate the Napoleonic wars

Regards

Andy H

[Caractacus]

Why would it be the UK that would renew any agreement?

Newfoundland (today part of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador).
Eastern side of the Bahamas
Southern coast of Jamaica
Western coast of St. Lucia,
West coast of Trinidad (Gulf of Paria)
Antigua
British Guiana (present day Guyana) within fifty miles of Georgetown

The world's geopolitics have moved on apace since 1940 - NONE of those are now in the purview of the British Government!

Heh! Very true! I wonder how the agreement was affected by the handover of sovereignty? One assumes that the newly completely independent (as opposed to autonomous) nations had an option to renegotiate? If not, could it be that the British DO still have the rights to the bases - rights that they have leased to the US? Surely, it would otherwise mean that the British would have lost the legal right to lease them when the nations became completely independent? Interesting. Do we have an expert on international law here somewhere?

[phylo_roadking]

Surely, it would otherwise mean that the British would have lost the legal right to lease them when the nations became completely independent?

Well - I wouldn't have assumed there WAS an automatic right to "lease"....unless something was written into whatever articles of independence were passed between the mother country and the territories whenever Remember....the British weren't in a position to "automatically" re-lease the Treaty Ports in Ireland in 1938!

EDIT: I've just been having a quick browse around WIki for hints of where to search next...and found THIS in the entry for Trinidad & Tobago -

The 1956 General Elections saw the emergence of the People's National Movement under the leadership of Eric Williams. The PNM, opposed by Dr. Rudranath Capildeo of the Democratic Labor Party and Ashford Sinanan, who later founded the West Indian National Party (WINP), [18] continued to dominate politics in Trinidad and Tobago until 1986. The party won every General Election between 1956 and 1981. Williams became Prime Minister at independence, and remained in that position until his death in 1981.

In 1958, the United Kingdom tried to establish an independent West Indies Federation comprising most of the former British West Indies. However, disagreement over the structure of the federation led to Jamaica's withdrawal. Eric Williams responded to this with his now famous calculation "One from ten leaves nought." Trinidad and Tobago chose not bear the financial burden without Jamaica's assistance, and the Federation collapsed. Trinidad and Tobago achieved full independence in August 1962 within the Commonwealth with Queen Elizabeth II as its titular head of state. In August 1, 1976, the country became a republic, and the last Governor-General, Sir Ellis Clarke, became the first President

Am I getting a hint that there might possibly have been some disagreement over "legacy" elements with the British after that? Particularly Jamaica?

[Ostkatze]

PNM, DLP, WINP .... bloody splitters....

" Do we have an expert on international law here somewhere? "

Seeing as Justice Scalia hasn't piped in yet....

Speaking of lease bargains, the annual payment of $2000 in gold was reset at an equivalent of $4085 cheque for Guantanamo, which the newbies claim they cashed once in ignorance in 1959.
I've no idea if the amount has ever been adjusted over the years, but as they haven't been cashed since, hopefully the US Treasury has been carefully investing those funds for 50yrs. Could be righteous bucks by now.
Just think how many old Buicks they could have bought over the years.... Neilly.

[Peter]

Britain paid off her last $83.25 million to the U.S.A. on the 31st of December 2006...and simultaneously the last $22.7 of the loan it received from Canada in 1946.

HOWEVER...technically we actually STILL owe on our WWI debt! Herbert Hoover declared a moritorium on ALL WWI debts in 1931 during the financial crisis following the Stock market Crash of 1929...

Only ONE slight little problem...at the time Hoover declared the moritorium, OTHER countries owed BRITAIN more than WE owed the U.S.!!! So WE were never paid what WE were owed for monies we leant out in 1914-18!!!

However...Nixon, by executive order, forgave the Soviet Union's Lend-lease debt!!! I didn't know that til i went looking. Hell of gesture of goodwill

Apparently FRANCE still owes the U.S., but I don't know how much.

Can anybody advise how much France owesnto the UK from the 1914-18 war, I mean in financial terms of course.
thanks

[Peter]

nobody ?