I ask that cost of weapon.

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
diggerland
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Location: Seoul, South Korea

I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by diggerland » 16 Feb 2009 09:35

Hi, I writting in list that cost of weapon in ww2. I wrote cost of wapon-aircrafts, AFVs, small arms, gun/cannons, warships-. But I didn't find somethig, then I ask how much cost of weapon product follow down:

1. small arms- M1 garand, M1/M1A1 Thompson submachinegun, B.A.R, M1903 springfiled rifle, sten gun, M1919 machine gun, M2 machine gun, lee-enfield rifle, Bren gun, Mosin-Nagant rifle, PPsh41.

2. AFVs- M3 Lee/Grant, Mk.IV Churchill tank, Mk.I/II Matilda, Mk.III Valentine, Mk.VI Crusader, Firefly Sherman,

3. Aircrafts- Ju-87 'Stuka', Me-110, Me-262, V-weapon, Lancaster Bomber, Mosquito Bomber, Blenheim Bomber, Hawker Hurricane, IL-2 'Shturmovik'.

I know that difficult find it. So, I ask for help to you.

South
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by South » 19 Feb 2009 10:33

Good morning Diggerland,

Some of the basic infantry type weapons' costs, such as the Thompson SMG and B.A.R., you can probably get by vising some veterans clubs in Seoul - and start asking.

For costs of IL-2s, (Soviet version of America's DC-3), you need a background in economics and various national accounting programs.

Some time ago I posted at AHF some material on how gasoline was priced in the Soviet Union. The cost/price was different than the US and western nations. It is complex and complicated. Much involves estimates and guesses. Thus, sophisticated items like the IL-2s aren't that easy to work up costs using the web as the medium.

Warm regards,

Bob

diggerland
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Location: Seoul, South Korea

Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by diggerland » 19 Feb 2009 11:54

Thanks, South.

Dave Bender
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Some data I have collected

Post by Dave Bender » 21 Feb 2009 13:41

Currency Conversion Rates.
1 USD = 5.31 Poland zloty.
1 USD = .21 British pound.
1 USD = 37.7 French frank.
1 USD = 2.5 German mark.
1 USD = 5.3 Russian rubles. Pegged artificially low. Actual rate should be about 1 USD per 10 rubles.
1 USD = 4 Swedish krona in 1935. This exchange rate bounced around a bit.

Small Arms.
$13. Luger P08 9mm pistol.
$15. M1911 .45cal pistol. This is a WWI price.
$24. MP40 SMG.
$26. MP44 assault rifle. This is a late war price when production costs were lower.
$26. M1917 Enfield rifle. WWI price.
$28. 7.92mm Mauser 98k rifle.
$31. 7.92mm wz.29 bolt action rifle (Poland).
$70. Thompson SMG. Spring 1942 price.
$83. M1 Garand rifle. Price is for July 1942 Winchester.
$100. MG42 machinegun. Late war price.
$105. M14 rifle. 1960 price.
$131. MG34 machinegun. The tripod costs an additional $160.
$270. 7.92mm wz.28 BAR (Poland).
$396. 7.92mm wz.30 HMG (Poland).

Anti Tank Guns.
$2,292. 3.7cm/45 Pak36.
$4,240. 5cm/60 Pak38
$4,800. 7.5cm/48 Pak40.

AA Guns.
$2,400. 2cm Flak38 (single barrel).
$13,440. 8.8cm Flak18.

Field Artillery.
$32. 105mm howitzer shell.
$14,400. Sd.Kfz.7 half track prime mover.
$324. 8cm mortar Gr.W.34.
$480. 12cm mortar Gr.W.42.
$6,560. 10.5cm leFH18 howitzer.
$15,400. 15cm sFH howitzer.

Armored Vehicles. These prices include weapons and other normally installed equipment.
$9,024. Sd.Kfz.7 medium half track (3 ton / infantry squad).
$20,000. Panzer MkIIC tank. 10 tons. 20mm autocannon. 15mm armor.
$34,181. 7TP light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 17mm armor.
$37,096. R35 light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 43mm armor.
$40,000. Panzer MkIIIG (and later) tank. 50mm main gun. 30mm armor.
$46,000. M4 (Sherman) tank. 35 tons. 75mm main gun.
$46,387. Panzer MkIVG (and later) tank. 75mm main gun. 50mm armor.
$60,000. Panzer MkV (Panther) tank. 75mm/70 main gun. 80mm armor.
$119,920. Panzer MkVIE (Tiger) tank. 88mm main gun. 100mm armor.

$30,943. T-34/76 tank. 164,000 rubles. Official exchange rate. Real USD price is roughly twice this amount.

Aircraft.
$23,000 P-36 fighter.
$50,000. F6F Hellcat fighter.

price data for 1941 for some German aircraft types, via Olaf Groehlers GdLK, 1910-1980:
Without engine / with engine, in Reichsmarks (RM)
Bf 109E : 58 000 / 85 970
Bf 110C : 155 800 / 210 140
He 111H : 203 900 / 265 650
Ju 88A : 245 200 / 306 950
Ju 87B : 100 300 / 131 175
Ju 52 : 125 800 / 163 000
Do 17 : 185 500 / 235 00

Type VII U boat. 2.5 million marks.
Lancaster heavy bomber. 42,000 pounds sterling. 1943 price. This price is not verified.

1940 Man hours required to build airframe.
4,000. Me-109 fighter.
10,300. Hurricane fighter.
15,200. Spitfire fighter. Another source states 13,000 man hours.
20,000. Ju-88 medium bomber.

1942 Man hours required to build airframe.
3,500. Me-109 fighter.
5,400. Fw-190 fighter.
12,000. P-51A fighter / dive bomber.
30,000. He-219 night fighter.

Aircraft Engine Prices.
$25,000 Packard built RR Merlin engine.
$19,000 Allison V-1710 engine.
$16,500 Wright R-2600 engine.
$ 11,188 DB601 engine. (27,970 marks)
$10,000 Wright R-1820 engine.
45,000 to 65,000 marks for a BMW801 engine during 1942.

diggerland
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Location: Seoul, South Korea

Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by diggerland » 21 Feb 2009 15:50

Thanks, Dave.

Dave Bender
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Location: Michigan U.S.A.

A few more.

Post by Dave Bender » 22 Feb 2009 01:38

$2,765,000 for a Gato class submarine.
$2 million for a Libety ship.
$10,800 for a DUKW
$12,500 for a LCVP.
2.5 million marks for a Type VII U boat.
48 million Yen for an Agano class CL.

diggerland
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Location: Seoul, South Korea

Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by diggerland » 24 Feb 2009 10:05

Thanks, Dave. Thanks.

Hop
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Hop » 27 Feb 2009 18:40

1940 Man hours required to build airframe.
4,000. Me-109 fighter.
10,300. Hurricane fighter.
15,200. Spitfire fighter. Another source states 13,000 man hours.
20,000. Ju-88 medium bomber.


I'm not sure about that. I know a German report from 1941 (or 1942) estimated the man hours to build a Spitfire to be slightly below those required for a 109, if both were built by German industry. The above figures could still be correct if the German aircraft industry was several times as efficient as the British, but in fact the reverse is true, the British aircraft industry built more aircraft with less manpower than the Germans.

I suspect there is a great difference in what's being included in the man hours.

Lancaster heavy bomber. 42,000 pounds sterling. 1943 price. This price is not verified.


This highlights the problems of comparing between countries. What exactly are we comparing?

The air ministry paid an average of just under £32,000 per Lancaster. The cost of the first Lancaster built by A. V. Roe was £22,000, by 1944 the price had fallen to £15,500.

I suspect the difference between those figures is whether engines, guns, radios, radar etc are included.

Aircraft Engine Prices.
$25,000 Packard built RR Merlin engine.
$19,000 Allison V-1710 engine.
$16,500 Wright R-2600 engine.
$ 11,188 DB601 engine. (27,970 marks)
$10,000 Wright R-1820 engine.
45,000 to 65,000 marks for a BMW801 engine during 1942.


The cost of a Merlin built by Ford in the UK was £5,640 in June 1941, £2,484 in March 1942 and £1,180 at the end of the war.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 30 Oct 2010 01:03

battleship Bismarck = 200,000,000 RM
Tiger tank for export to Japan = 645,000 RM

Hanny
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Hanny » 30 Oct 2010 01:20

nebelwerferXXX wrote: Tiger tank for export to Japan = 645,000 RM
An odd thing that, one, and only one, sold ( 300K normaly) never delevered the only one ordered, and loanded back to the SS, pretty sharp lawyers in the SS.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 30 Oct 2010 01:29

Hanny wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote: Tiger tank for export to Japan = 645,000 RM
An odd thing that, one, and only one, sold ( 300K normaly) never delevered the only one ordered, and loanded back to the SS, pretty sharp lawyers in the SS.
What happened to the 645,000 RM? Did the SS-Lawyers pocketed the money?

Hanny
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Hanny » 30 Oct 2010 01:34

No idea, i just liked the thought of the contract calling for delvery at Japans expense, and a clause loaning it back to the SS ( who did actually get it as a loaner from the Jap`s) untill delivery.....Could be worse, Uk bought Apache` s with no way to operate them as the contract did not include the correct codes to fly them.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 30 Oct 2010 01:48

Hanny wrote:No idea, i just liked the thought of the contract calling for delvery at Japans expense, and a clause loaning it back to the SS ( who did actually get it as a loaner from the Jap`s) untill delivery.....Could be worse, Uk bought Apache` s with no way to operate them as the contract did not include the correct codes to fly them.
The Apache cost = $ 10,000,000 (1991 price), so to have training to operate the helicopter cost another $ 10,000,000? So that it makes a total of $20,000,000 including pilot training expenses. Correct me if I am wrong...

Hanny
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Hanny » 30 Oct 2010 02:06

Back in 2002 or so Uk bought 3Billion of Apaches, there was no training program that produced pilots till 2007, when the first 144 qualified, there was issue of no secure comms, no codes for nav included in the contract and then the stock was put into hangers, mere millions of staorage costs, and no spares ordered, so when Pilots and machines existed togther, the fleet had to be canabalised to keep it operational till a new spares contract was in place.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 15408.html some of the issues are here.



Could be worse, 2 new CV that wont have Harriers is the latest example of incompetent management.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 30 Oct 2010 02:19

Thanks Hanny...

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