I ask that cost of weapon.

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Tiger tanks

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 23 Nov 2010 10:01

Tiger tanks to Japan: An export price of 645,000 RM:

Price breakdown is given as follows:

Gear change Mechanism...8,300 RM
Engine...13,000 RM
Hull...54,000 RM
Turret...26,000 RM
Turret assembly...20,000 RM
Chassis assembly...12,400 RM
Tracks...7,000 RM
Gun...22,000 RM
Ammunition...9,000 RM
Optical System...2,900 RM
Radio equipment...3,000 RM
2 x MG 34s...1,100 RM
Machine pistol...75 RM

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Takao
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Takao » 23 Nov 2010 10:37

nebelwerferXXX,

You forgot shipping & handling....466,225 RM

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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 23 Nov 2010 10:46

Takao wrote:nebelwerferXXX,

You forgot shipping & handling....466,225 RM
That makes a total of 1,111,225 RM for One Tiger tank. To expensive...

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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 04 Dec 2010 06:06

LWD wrote:The battleships look cheap compared to the heavy cruisers. Anyone got an idea why>
Forgive me for my 500th post.

As far as I know, why cruisers were expensive because...Forgive me, if I quoted it from the book, Encyclopedia of World War II. And it reads...

'...The cruiser is best defined as the largest warship-type ship which could be built in numbers. Its functions were many; it was in some ways a general-purpose warship designed to escort and assist battleships, protect merchant shipping and support destroyers, as well as bearing a part of the normal naval burdens of shore bombardment, patrolling and scouting...'

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LWD
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by LWD » 06 Dec 2010 14:35

That seems rather in conflict with the numbers. The heavy cruisers are a bit less than half the cost of the battleships which suggest that if you could build one in numbers you could do so with the other (all be it ~half the numbers). Furthermore battleships are more complex than cruisers so one would expect them to be more expensive porportionally but here we have battleships with ~ three times the mass costing about twice as much. Indeed if you compare Eugen to the Bismarcks you can Get 1 Bismarck cheaper than 2 Eugens.

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Zebedee
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Zebedee » 07 Dec 2010 10:59

Il-2:

1941- 330k roubles ea
1942 - 191k roubles ea
1943 - 162k roubles ea

PPSh machine pistol:

1941 - 500 roubles ea
1942 - 400 roubles ea
1943 - 140 roubles ea
1944 - 148 roubles ea
1945 - 148 roubles ea

Source: Table B.2, Harrison, Accounting for War, Cambridge University Press, 2002

To place into the Soviet context, the average hourly wage of an industrial worker over these years was:

1940: 1.93 roubles
1941: 1.77 roubles
1942: 1.70 roubles
1943: 1.72 roubles
1944: 1.84 roubles
1945: 2.19 roubles

Source: Table G7, op.cit.

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LWD
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by LWD » 07 Dec 2010 13:43

But doesn't one have to be careful about such "context"? For instance weren't a lot of expensese that most workers had taken care of by the state in the USSR? Tooze points out some of the difficulties in making such comparisons in Wages of Destruction where for instance he mentions that housing costs were porportionally higher for German workers for smaller quarters.

If we look at the numbers above a Soviet worker would earn enough to buy a PPsh in ~200 hours depending on year.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun the Thompson M1A1 ran $70 in 42 down to $45 in 44. According to http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade40.html the US minimum wage was $.43. Which means that even at minimum wage a US worker could earn enough to buy a Thompson in under 200 hours and by late war around 100 hours. From what I've read the Thompson was considerably more complicated to produce.

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Zebedee
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Zebedee » 07 Dec 2010 19:37

LWD wrote:But doesn't one have to be careful about such "context"?

Hi LWD,

within a Soviet-specific context and as a guide to the relative 'price' the Soviet accounting systems placed upon weapons, then I'm not sure that one needs to worry too greatly about too many of the issues involved - whether they be the accuracy of the figures the Soviets chose to use or the relative purchasing power of the rouble etc.

Comparing Soviet prices to US ones would be problematic though, as you indicate, for a whole host of issues. Even more so than trying to compare German to US ones.

All the best,

Zeb

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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by takata_1940 » 08 Dec 2010 10:20

Hi,
LWD wrote:That seems rather in conflict with the numbers. The heavy cruisers are a bit less than half the cost of the battleships which suggest that if you could build one in numbers you could do so with the other (all be it ~half the numbers). Furthermore battleships are more complex than cruisers so one would expect them to be more expensive porportionally but here we have battleships with ~ three times the mass costing about twice as much. Indeed if you compare Eugen to the Bismarcks you can Get 1 Bismarck cheaper than 2 Eugens.
That's why construction prices were given as cost per ton of displacement (lightship) depending of the ship class. In fact, the basic cost per ton rise the smaller is the ship. Submarines or fast destroyers were far more expensive on this basis than the battleships of which a good part of its price per ton consisted of heavy armor plates. Once you've got the necessary heavy tools and adequate shipyards to build them, workhours for construction are not vastly different than for any cruiser. Hull size is more a factor than weight and most of the expensive equipment is the same excepted for heavy guns.

S~
Olivier

nebelwerferXXX
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Unit Price

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 30 Jul 2011 14:13

Dave Bender wrote:Currency Conversion Rate.
1 USD = 2.5 German mark.

Small Arms.
$13. Luger P08 9mm pistol.
$24. MP 40 SMG.
$26. MP 44 assault rifle. This is a late war price when production costs were lower.
$28. 7.92mm Mauser 98k rifle.
$100. MG 42 machine gun. Late war price.
$131. MG 34 machine gun. The tripod costs an additional $160.

Anti Tank Guns.
$2,292. 3.7cm/45 Pak 36.
$4,240. 5cm/60 Pak 38
$4,800. 7.5cm/48 Pak 40.

AA Guns.
$2,400. 2cm Flak 38 (single barrel).
$13,440. 8.8cm Flak 18.

Field Artillery.
$32. 105mm howitzer shell.
$14,400. Sd.Kfz. 7 half-track prime mover.
$324. 8cm mortar Gr.W.34.
$480. 12cm mortar Gr.W.42.
$6,560. 10.5cm leFH 18 howitzer.
$15,400. 15cm sFH howitzer.

Armored Vehicles. These prices include weapons and other normally installed equipment.
$9,024. Sd.Kfz.7 medium half track (3 ton/infantry squad).
$20,000. Panzer Mk IIC tank. 10 tons. 20mm auto-cannon. 15mm armor.
$40,000. Panzer Mk IIIG (and later) tank. 50mm main gun. 30mm armor.
$46,387. Panzer Mk IVG (and later) tank. 75mm main gun. 50mm armor.
$60,000. Panzer Mk V (Panther) tank. 75mm/70 main gun. 80mm armor.
$119,920. Panzer Mk VIE (Tiger) tank. 88mm main gun. 100mm armor.

price data for 1941 for some German aircraft types, via Olaf Groehlers GdLK, 1910-1980:
Without engine / with engine, in Reichsmarks (RM)
Bf 109E: 58,000 / 85,970
Bf 110C: 155,800 / 210,140
He 111H: 203,900 / 265,650
Ju 88A: 245,200 / 306,950
Ju 87B: 100,300 / 131,175
Ju 52: 125,800 / 163,000
Do 17: 185 500 / 235 00

Type VII U boat. 2.5 million marks.

1940 Man hours required to build airframe.
4,000. Me-109 fighter.
20,000. Ju-88 medium bomber.

1942 Man hours required to build airframe.
3,500. Me-109 fighter.
5,400. Fw-190 fighter.
30,000. He-219 night fighter.

Aircraft Engine Prices.
45,000 to 65,000 marks for a BMW801 engine during 1942.
Nice data ! Thanks ! Very useful for estimating purposes.
Last edited by nebelwerferXXX on 31 Jul 2011 00:47, edited 1 time in total.

nebelwerferXXX
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Unit Price

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 31 Jul 2011 00:20

Dave Bender wrote:Currency Conversion Rate.
1 USD = .21 British pound.

Small Arms.
$15. M1911 .45-cal pistol. This is a WW I price.
$26. M1917 Enfield rifle. WW I price.
$70. Thompson SMG. Spring 1942 price.
$83. M1 Garand rifle. Price is for July 1942 Winchester.
$105. M14 rifle. 1960 price.
$506. M16 rifle. 1990 price.

Armored Vehicle. These prices include weapons and other normally installed equipment.
$46,000. M4 (Sherman) tank. 35 tons. 75mm main gun.

Aircraft.
$23,000. P-36 fighter.
$50,000. F6F Hellcat fighter.

Lancaster heavy bomber. 42,000 pounds sterling. 1943 price. This price is not verified.

1940 Man hours required to build airframe.
10,300. Hurricane fighter.
15,200. Spitfire fighter. Another source states 13,000 man hours.

1942 Man hours required to build airframe.
12,000. P-51A fighter/dive bomber.

Aircraft Engine Prices.
$25,000 Packard-built RR Merlin engine.
$19,000 Allison V-1710 engine.
$16,500 Wright R-2600 engine.
$10,000 Wright R-1820 engine.
Estimating Guide for US and British equipment.

nebelwerferXXX
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Unit Price

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 31 Jul 2011 00:59

Dave Bender wrote:Currency Conversion Rates.
1 USD = 5.31 Poland zloty.
1 USD = 37.7 French frank.
1 USD = 5.3 Russian rubles. Pegged artificially low. Actual rate should be about 1 USD per 10 rubles.

Small Arms.
$31. 7.92mm wz.29 bolt-action rifle (Poland).
$270. 7.92mm wz.28 BAR (Poland).
$396. 7.92mm wz.30 HMG (Poland).

Armored Vehicles. These prices include weapons and other normally installed equipment.
$34,181. 7TP light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 17mm armor.
$37,096. R35 light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 43mm armor.
$30,943. T-34/76 tank. 164,000 rubles. Official exchange rate. Real USD price is roughly twice this amount.
Estimating Guide for other combatants.

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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by piggychops » 31 Aug 2011 12:59

Hi

The early Mosquito, & Hurricane might have had different price tags.

Ignoring the Melrin(s) and MGs

The Hurricane was made by in main by young women on piece work welding and brazing small diameter bicycle tubing, cutting up and sewing fabric covers. Some pilots made it back to air fields, minus tubing from 30mm cannon strikes.

The Mosquito young women cutting, clamping & gluing plywood.

They were both war time austerity platforms, steel tubing was difficult in UK.

Noel

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Re: Some data I have collected

Post by hmurdock » 04 Sep 2011 20:25

Dave Bender wrote:Currency Conversion Rates.
1 USD = 5.31 Poland zloty.
1 USD = .21 British pound.
1 USD = 37.7 French frank.
1 USD = 2.5 German mark.
1 USD = 5.3 Russian rubles. Pegged artificially low. Actual rate should be about 1 USD per 10 rubles.
1 USD = 4 Swedish krona in 1935. This exchange rate bounced around a bit.

Small Arms.
$13. Luger P08 9mm pistol.
$15. M1911 .45cal pistol. This is a WWI price.
$24. MP40 SMG.
$26. MP44 assault rifle. This is a late war price when production costs were lower.
$26. M1917 Enfield rifle. WWI price.
$28. 7.92mm Mauser 98k rifle.
$31. 7.92mm wz.29 bolt action rifle (Poland).
$70. Thompson SMG. Spring 1942 price.
$83. M1 Garand rifle. Price is for July 1942 Winchester.
$100. MG42 machinegun. Late war price.
$105. M14 rifle. 1960 price.
$131. MG34 machinegun. The tripod costs an additional $160.
$270. 7.92mm wz.28 BAR (Poland).
$396. 7.92mm wz.30 HMG (Poland).

Anti Tank Guns.
$2,292. 3.7cm/45 Pak36.
$4,240. 5cm/60 Pak38
$4,800. 7.5cm/48 Pak40.

AA Guns.
$2,400. 2cm Flak38 (single barrel).
$13,440. 8.8cm Flak18.

Field Artillery.
$32. 105mm howitzer shell.
$14,400. Sd.Kfz.7 half track prime mover.
$324. 8cm mortar Gr.W.34.
$480. 12cm mortar Gr.W.42.
$6,560. 10.5cm leFH18 howitzer.
$15,400. 15cm sFH howitzer.

Armored Vehicles. These prices include weapons and other normally installed equipment.
$9,024. Sd.Kfz.7 medium half track (3 ton / infantry squad).
$20,000. Panzer MkIIC tank. 10 tons. 20mm autocannon. 15mm armor.
$34,181. 7TP light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 17mm armor.
$37,096. R35 light tank. 10 tons. 37mm main gun. 43mm armor.
$40,000. Panzer MkIIIG (and later) tank. 50mm main gun. 30mm armor.
$46,000. M4 (Sherman) tank. 35 tons. 75mm main gun.
$46,387. Panzer MkIVG (and later) tank. 75mm main gun. 50mm armor.
$60,000. Panzer MkV (Panther) tank. 75mm/70 main gun. 80mm armor.
$119,920. Panzer MkVIE (Tiger) tank. 88mm main gun. 100mm armor.

$30,943. T-34/76 tank. 164,000 rubles. Official exchange rate. Real USD price is roughly twice this amount.

Aircraft.
$23,000 P-36 fighter.
$50,000. F6F Hellcat fighter.

price data for 1941 for some German aircraft types, via Olaf Groehlers GdLK, 1910-1980:
Without engine / with engine, in Reichsmarks (RM)
Bf 109E : 58 000 / 85 970
Bf 110C : 155 800 / 210 140
He 111H : 203 900 / 265 650
Ju 88A : 245 200 / 306 950
Ju 87B : 100 300 / 131 175
Ju 52 : 125 800 / 163 000
Do 17 : 185 500 / 235 00

Type VII U boat. 2.5 million marks.
Lancaster heavy bomber. 42,000 pounds sterling. 1943 price. This price is not verified.

1940 Man hours required to build airframe.
4,000. Me-109 fighter.
10,300. Hurricane fighter.
15,200. Spitfire fighter. Another source states 13,000 man hours.
20,000. Ju-88 medium bomber.

1942 Man hours required to build airframe.
3,500. Me-109 fighter.
5,400. Fw-190 fighter.
12,000. P-51A fighter / dive bomber.
30,000. He-219 night fighter.

Aircraft Engine Prices.
$25,000 Packard built RR Merlin engine.
$19,000 Allison V-1710 engine.
$16,500 Wright R-2600 engine.
$ 11,188 DB601 engine. (27,970 marks)
$10,000 Wright R-1820 engine.
45,000 to 65,000 marks for a BMW801 engine during 1942.
This data looks very useful, but do you know where you got this data, specifically the data about the Panther and Tiger tanks?

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Windward
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Re: I ask that cost of weapon.

Post by Windward » 12 Oct 2011 05:27

Japanese weapons

type 38 rifle: 71 yen (= 270.000 yen today)
type 97 tank: 140,000 yen (= 486,000,000 yen today)
Mitsubishi Zero sen: 55,000 yen to 120,000 yen (= 190,000,000 yen today)
Mitsubishi J2M "Jack" fighter: 70,000 yen
Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" bomber: 200,000 yen
ballon bomb: 10,000 yen
Akizuki class destroyer: 12,000,000 yen
Yamato class battleship: 140,000,000 yen
Zuikaku class carrier (aircrafts included): 110,000,000 yen

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