Whaling

[Pax Melmacia]

I vaguely recall reading how whale meat was part of the food given concentration camp inmates. (The source even said this lasted as long as Germany had 'control of the high seas'. Since I don't ever remember that happening, I assume it meant as long as German fishing boats were unmolested, i.e., before the war.

Then I recalled that Germany has a whaling history, especially during the Hanseatic League era. So was whale meat/oil also mainstream? The fact that it was given to inmates hints it was near the bottom of the list.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi PM,

I would guess that the source of any substantial amount of whale meat would have to be Norway. They had both the coastline and expertise, whereas I can't think of anywhere else under Nazi control that did.

(Perhaps the most far-flung military operation of WWII was the burning by the British of oil depots in Norwegian whaling stations in Antarctica so that German raiders couldn't use them).

Cheers,

Sid.

[phylo_roadking]

Whalemeat would indeed be in abundance in Norway...especially given the whale oil processing industry that the British intervened to destroy in the Lofoten Islands and Vaagso

[mescal]

The Norwegian also provided whale oil to Germany indirectly and involuntarily.

The Hilfskreuzer Pinguin captured two factory ships (Ole Wegger & Pelagos) with their smaller attached vessels in the Antarctica in january 1941.
The Germans managed to sent Pelagos & Solglimt (the tanker & supply ship of the whaler fleet) back to France with roughly 20,000 tons of whale oil in their tanks.

The full story is here : http://bismarck-class.dk/hilfskreuzer/pinguin.html

[Sewer King]

I vaguely recall reading how whale meat was part of the food given concentration camp inmates. (The source even said this lasted as long as Germany had 'control of the high seas'. Since I don't ever remember that happening, I assume it meant as long as German fishing boats were unmolested, i.e., before the war ...? The fact that it was given to inmates hints it was near the bottom of the list.

You remembered correctly, except for "control of the high seas" -- see the following. Use of whale meat in the camps was reported by Eugen Kogon in his book The Theory and Practice of Hell. It was also in David A. Hackett's The Buchenwald Report (Westview Press, 1997), in which whale meat was linked to an outbreak of sickness at that KZ (page 248).

I don't have a copy of Kogon at hand, but a close approximate quote is that "A good deal of [the meat] was whale meat, especially while Germany still had access to the high seas, later it was low-grade horsemeat." There was further mention of woody rootstock vegetables as "German pineapples," and poor fish meal containing a great deal of bones, called "Viking Salad." These I suppose were among the better parts of KZ prisoner food before the war, and Kogon contrasted it to the comparatively fine food fed to the SS officers' dogs. The latter were fed meat, cereals, potatoes, milk, eggs, even wine, such that prisoners would try hard to get work in the dog mess to secretly skim some of their food.

If whale meat was served in the prewar KZs I infer the following:

• it was more for non-human consumption on the Continent, such as with the lowest grades of beef used in dog food today.
  
  it was inexpensive, and
  
  it was almost certainly not fresh but canned or dried.

Whalemeat would indeed be in abundance in Norway...especially given the whale oil processing industry that the British intervened to destroy in the Lofoten Islands and Vaagso

How much did Norwegians themselves, or any other Europeans, make any wider or common use of whale meat? It was certainly available to whaling nations, and still has some market in today's Japan, I think. But if oil was the main cash commodity how much demand was there for the meat, particularly in central Germany?

-- Alan

[phylo_roadking]

But if oil was the main cash commodity how much demand was there for the meat, particularly in central Germany?

Alan - not to play for cheap laughs - but I think it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation Whatever role it played BEFORE the war...as a supply of protein and fats the demand for it is going spiral up during the war...

[Sewer King]

Certainly demand goes up in wartime, even for less-than-usual meats. But wouldn't the supply of whaling products to the German-controlled Continent have dropped due to the blockade, particularly the British watch on the North and Norwegian Seas?

I think Germany herself had in fact been a leading whaling nation through the 1930s, and made use of the oil not for lighting as in the past, but for margarine. For this any edible vegetable and animal oil can be hydrogenated (solidified by treating with hydrogen gas) after its flavor is removed. Margarine so made can begin with many blends of these fats, depending on whatever oils are available or most economical. Despite the few prizes of whale oil taken by the Hilfkreuzer, however, whaling products quickly fell off in trade and the Germans turned to other sources and substitutes for it as much as most else.

-- Alan

[Pax Melmacia]

think Germany herself had in fact been a leading whaling nation through the 1930s, and made use of the oil not for lighting as in the past, but for margarine.

There's a pleasant thought next time you're having breakfast.

(One description of whale meat states that it is like tough beef that had been boiled in water where mackerel had been washed.)

You're right about Norway. IIRC one of the biggest (if not the biggest) commercial ships in the world was the Pan Norway, a converted whaling ship. Operation Drumbeat describes the hair-raising experience of a torpedo-less U-123 that had just managed to outrun her before the big bruiser could ram the U-Boat.

For this any edible vegetable and animal oil can be hydrogenated (solidified by treating with hydrogen gas) after its flavor is removed.

I have heard of margarine being made out of coal oil. Of course, it often killed you. (I forget if this was in the KZ or in Leningrad.)

[bf109 emil]

source for German whaling and it's consumption

The third German Antarctic Expedition (1938–1939) was led by Alfred Ritscher (1879–1963). The main purpose was to secure an area in Antarctica for a German whaling station, as part of a plan to increase Germany’s production of fat. Whale oil was then the most important raw material for the production of margarine and soap in Germany and the country was the second largest purchaser of Norwegian whale oil, importing some 200,000 metric tonnes annually. Besides the disadvantage of being dependent on foreign sources, especially since it was likely Germany soon would be at war, this put considerable pressure on Germany’s foreign currency assets.

To assert Germany’s claim to newly named Neu-Schwabenland three German flags were placed along the coast and 13 more were air-dropped further inland. Some accounts claim these markers were 1.5-metre (5 ft)-tall iron poles topped with a swastika. These were dropped in the ice at intervals of about 30–40 kilometres (20–25 mi).[1] Teams also walked along the coast recording claim reservations on hills and other significant landmarks. The expedition also established a temporary base. Hot springs with vegetation were sighted from the air at Schirmacher Oasis which now hosts the Maitri and Novolazarevskaya research stations. The location was named for the captain who commanded the flight shortly before the Schwabenland's return to Germany in February 1939.

sourcehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Germ ... Expeditionofficial logo for expedition

[Sewer King]

... one of the biggest (if not the biggest) commercial ships in the world was the Pan Norway, a converted whaling ship. Operation Drumbeat describes the hair-raising experience of a torpedo-less U-123 that had just managed to outrun her before the big bruiser could ram the U-Boat.

Something for the U-boat section -– how much damage could have resulted if the whaler had managed to ram? The U-boat has a hard pressure hull, but the whaler had the mass and speed, and maybe could have swamped her enemy if unready to dive?

=============================

From a feature article by David Edgerton, “Not Counting Chemistry: How We Misread the History of 20th-Century Science and Technology,” Chemical Heritage Newsletter Fall 2009 vol 27 No 3:

...The hydrogenation of coal was just one of a number of hydrogenation processes that came into use in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A second hydrogenation technology was used to make margarine mainly from nondairy fats, a vital resource at a time when dairy fat was precious. One remarkable and little-known consequence of this technology was the creation of a vast new 20th-century whaling industry. By 1914 whale oil was already being hydrogenated for margarine by the emerging great margarine firms, but by the 1930s this was its main use. The 1920s and 1930s saw a huge expansion in whaling in the South Atlantic, using large factory whaling ships. Whale oil was ultimately used to make some 30% to 50% of all European margarine at this time. During 1931 South Atlantic whale oil production equaled French, Italian, and Spanish olive oil production combined. Mainly consumed in Germany, Britain, and Holland, the whale-oil supply was dominated by the Anglo-Dutch firm Unilever. (Today most margarine is made by hydrogenating vegetable oils.)

Unilever was forced by the new Nazi government to finance the building of a German-flagged whaling fleet, making Germany a whaling nation for the first time. The first floating factory built in Germany, the Walter Rau, named for the owner of the main German margarine firm, went to the southern oceans in the mid-1930s. In its first season it processed 1,700 whales. From these it produced 18,264 tons of whale oil, 240 tons of sperm oil, 1,024 tons of meat meal, 104 tons of canned meat, 114 tons of frozen meat, 10 tons of meat extract, 5 tons of liver meal, 22 tons of blubber fiber, and 11 tons of glands for medical experiments. By 1939 the Germans were deploying 5 owned and 2 chartered factory ships. The Japanese also went into large-scale whaling at this time. After World War II Germany was prevented from whaling for some years, and its factory ships were used by other powers. Whaling boomed, and up to 20 floating factories were operating in the Antarctic, more than ever before. But the catch never reached the peaks of the 1930s, and the industry collapsed in the early 1960s. What we have considered a 19th-century industry is better seen as a mid-20th-century industry, one so rapacious that it destroyed itself in a way its 19th-century predecessor lacked the technology to achieve.

Walter Rau was one of the ships in Operation Hannibal, the German evacuation of Courland (Kurland) in 1945, which also included the ill-fated Wilhelm Gustloff.

• But could Unilever actually have been forced to finance her building, as told above? How, at the time, when the Nazis had only just taken power?
  
  If Walter Rau's production capacity is correct, as also told above – who was consuming this much whale meat, canned or frozen? Wasn't some or even most of it going to animal feed, as it did from Scotch shore-based whaling? Again, feeding whale to early concentration camp inmates sounds like the same low regard for it. Some coastal peoples may have a history of eating whale meat. But surely no European whaling fleet depended on that, since oil was the true cash product?

One of our Japanese experts in this forum recalled the use of whale meat in Japan's school lunches of the 1960s, where he had not liked it. Many other Japanese did not like whale either. But it was inexpensive and available, so early on the Occupation authorities had reportedly encouraged its use on to help feed the country. Thus were enough Japanese made to eat it after the war. Before the war, too, the Imperial Army had done the same thing -- it bought whale meat cheap partly because there was no other demand for it, and served it to its soldiers.

It seems, then, that Japan was the only whaling nation that took some of the meat home for direct human consumption, at some scale. Japan reportedly had a large enough stake in Antarctic whaling for supply of the European whale oil market -- and in particular the Germans, with whose fleet she was said to share 30% of the world catch.

Even as history, like the one linked above and the article quoted before it, whaling remains a matter of dispute.

=============================

I have heard of margarine being made out of coal oil ...

So have I, but can't remember where, or whether or not it was part of German ersatz food research. If true it doesn't seem to have gone far. In Europe, whale oil margarine apparently remained more economical in prewar years, before the rise of soybean oil. The American margarine industry did not use it, relying instead on coconut oil, and later cottonseed and soy oils.

-- Alan

[waldzee]

... one of the biggest (if not the biggest) commercial ships in the world was the Pan Norway, a converted whaling ship. Operation Drumbeat describes the hair-raising experience of a torpedo-less U-123 that had just managed to outrun her before the big bruiser could ram the U-Boat.

Something for the U-boat section -– how much damage could have resulted if the whaler had managed to ram? The U-boat has a hard pressure hull, but the whaler had the mass and speed, and maybe could have swamped her enemy if unready to dive?

=============================

From a feature article by David Edgerton, “Not Counting Chemistry: How We Misread the History of 20th-Century Science and Technology,” Chemical Heritage Newsletter Fall 2009 vol 27 No 3:

...The hydrogenation of coal was just one of a number of hydrogenation processes that came into use in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A second hydrogenation technology was used to make margarine mainly from nondairy fats, a vital resource at a time when dairy fat was precious. One remarkable and little-known consequence of this technology was the creation of a vast new 20th-century whaling industry. By 1914 whale oil was already being hydrogenated for margarine by the emerging great margarine firms, but by the 1930s this was its main use. The 1920s and 1930s saw a huge expansion in whaling in the South Atlantic, using large factory whaling ships. Whale oil was ultimately used to make some 30% to 50% of all European margarine at this time. During 1931 South Atlantic whale oil production equaled French, Italian, and Spanish olive oil production combined. Mainly consumed in Germany, Britain, and Holland, the whale-oil supply was dominated by the Anglo-Dutch firm Unilever. (Today most margarine is made by hydrogenating vegetable oils.)

Unilever was forced by the new Nazi government to finance the building of a German-flagged whaling fleet, making Germany a whaling nation for the first time. The first floating factory built in Germany, the Walter Rau, named for the owner of the main German margarine firm, went to the southern oceans in the mid-1930s. In its first season it processed 1,700 whales. From these it produced 18,264 tons of whale oil, 240 tons of sperm oil, 1,024 tons of meat meal, 104 tons of canned meat, 114 tons of frozen meat, 10 tons of meat extract, 5 tons of liver meal, 22 tons of blubber fiber, and 11 tons of glands for medical experiments. By 1939 the Germans were deploying 5 owned and 2 chartered factory ships. The Japanese also went into large-scale whaling at this time. After World War II Germany was prevented from whaling for some years, and its factory ships were used by other powers. Whaling boomed, and up to 20 floating factories were operating in the Antarctic, more than ever before. But the catch never reached the peaks of the 1930s, and the industry collapsed in the early 1960s. What we have considered a 19th-century industry is better seen as a mid-20th-century industry, one so rapacious that it destroyed itself in a way its 19th-century predecessor lacked the technology to achieve.

Walter Rau was one of the ships in Operation Hannibal, the German evacuation of Courland (Kurland) in 1945, which also included the ill-fated Wilhelm Gustloff.

• But could Unilever actually have been forced to finance her building, as told above? How, at the time, when the Nazis had only just taken power?
  
  If Walter Rau's production capacity is correct, as also told above – who was consuming this much whale meat, canned or frozen? Wasn't some or even most of it going to animal feed, as it did from Scotch shore-based whaling? Again, feeding whale to early concentration camp inmates sounds like the same low regard for it. Some coastal peoples may have a history of eating whale meat. But surely no European whaling fleet depended on that, since oil was the true cash product?

One of our Japanese experts in this forum recalled the use of whale meat in Japan's school lunches of the 1960s, where he had not liked it. Many other Japanese did not like whale either. But it was inexpensive and available, so early on the Occupation authorities had reportedly encouraged its use on to help feed the country. Thus were enough Japanese made to eat it after the war. Before the war, too, the Imperial Army had done the same thing -- it bought whale meat cheap partly because there was no other demand for it, and served it to its soldiers.

It seems, then, that Japan was the only whaling nation that took some of the meat home for direct human consumption, at some scale. Japan reportedly had a large enough stake in Antarctic whaling for supply of the European whale oil market -- and in particular the Germans, with whose fleet she was said to share 30% of the world catch.

Even as history, like the one linked above and the article quoted before it, whaling remains a matter of dispute.

=============================

I have heard of margarine being made out of coal oil ...

So have I, but can't remember where, or whether or not it was part of German ersatz food research. If true it doesn't seem to have gone far. In Europe, whale oil margarine apparently remained more economical in prewar years, before the rise of soybean oil. The American margarine industry did not use it, relying instead on coconut oil, and later cottonseed and soy oils.

-- Alan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Spermoil was an essential element in Automatic transmissions up to 1972. Whale blubber oils were also used in soaps, esp industrial soaps.

Muktuk, the only whale meat I have eaten, is actually delicious! Don't hesitate to try it...

[Trackhead M2]

Spermoil was an essential element in Automatic transmissions up to 1972. Whale blubber oils were also used in soaps, esp industrial soaps.

Muktuk, the only whale meat I have eaten, is actually delicious! Don't hesitate to try it...

Dear w,
What about the ambegris for high end perfumes? My mon had some back in the 1970's.
As to the meat, I've eaten rattle snake and alligator, so I will take your word that it is tasty. Was the texture fishlike? Or more of a predator meat like Bear or cougar? It's unlikely I will ever get to try it here in the States, is it available in Canada?
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

[waldzee]

Spermoil was an essential element in Automatic transmissions up to 1972. Whale blubber oils were also used in soaps, esp industrial soaps.

Muktuk, the only whale meat I have eaten, is actually delicious! Don't hesitate to try it...

Dear w,
What about the ambegris for high end perfumes? My mon had some back in the 1970's.
As to the meat, I've eaten rattle snake and alligator, so I will take your word that it is tasty. Was the texture fishlike? Or more of a predator meat like Bear or cougar? It's unlikely I will ever get to try it here in the States, is it available in Canada?
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muktuk
It the raw layer of inner skin inpregnated with fat. The Inuit know the best parts

rich in Vitamins,chews like soft bubble gum.
the Best of Whale, track...

[Trackhead M2]

Spermoil was an essential element in Automatic transmissions up to 1972. Whale blubber oils were also used in soaps, esp industrial soaps.

Muktuk, the only whale meat I have eaten, is actually delicious! Don't hesitate to try it...

Dear w,
What about the ambegris for high end perfumes? My mon had some back in the 1970's.
As to the meat, I've eaten rattle snake and alligator, so I will take your word that it is tasty. Was the texture fishlike? Or more of a predator meat like Bear or cougar? It's unlikely I will ever get to try it here in the States, is it available in Canada?
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muktuk
It the raw layer of inner skin inpregnated with fat. The Inuit know the best parts

rich in Vitamins,chews like soft bubble gum.
the Best of Whale, track...

Dear w,
So it wasn't a filet, but more of a whale rind.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

[waldzee]

... one of the biggest (if not the biggest) commercial ships in the world was the Pan Norway, a converted whaling ship. Operation Drumbeat describes the hair-raising experience of a torpedo-less U-123 that had just managed to outrun her before the big bruiser could ram the U-Boat.

Something for the U-boat section -– how much damage could have resulted if the whaler had managed to ram? The U-boat has a hard pressure hull, but the whaler had the mass and speed, and maybe could have swamped her enemy if unready to dive?

=============================

From a feature article by David Edgerton, “Not Counting Chemistry: How We Misread the History of 20th-Century Science and Technology,” Chemical Heritage Newsletter Fall 2009 vol 27 No 3:

...The hydrogenation of coal was just one of a number of hydrogenation processes that came into use in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A second hydrogenation technology was used to make margarine mainly from nondairy fats, a vital resource at a time when dairy fat was precious. One remarkable and little-known consequence of this technology was the creation of a vast new 20th-century whaling industry. By 1914 whale oil was already being hydrogenated for margarine by the emerging great margarine firms, but by the 1930s this was its main use. The 1920s and 1930s saw a huge expansion in whaling in the South Atlantic, using large factory whaling ships. Whale oil was ultimately used to make some 30% to 50% of all European margarine at this time. During 1931 South Atlantic whale oil production equaled French, Italian, and Spanish olive oil production combined. Mainly consumed in Germany, Britain, and Holland, the whale-oil supply was dominated by the Anglo-Dutch firm Unilever. (Today most margarine is made by hydrogenating vegetable oils.)

Unilever was forced by the new Nazi government to finance the building of a German-flagged whaling fleet, making Germany a whaling nation for the first time. The first floating factory built in Germany, the Walter Rau, named for the owner of the main German margarine firm, went to the southern oceans in the mid-1930s. In its first season it processed 1,700 whales. From these it produced 18,264 tons of whale oil, 240 tons of sperm oil, 1,024 tons of meat meal, 104 tons of canned meat, 114 tons of frozen meat, 10 tons of meat extract, 5 tons of liver meal, 22 tons of blubber fiber, and 11 tons of glands for medical experiments. By 1939 the Germans were deploying 5 owned and 2 chartered factory ships. The Japanese also went into large-scale whaling at this time. After World War II Germany was prevented from whaling for some years, and its factory ships were used by other powers. Whaling boomed, and up to 20 floating factories were operating in the Antarctic, more than ever before. But the catch never reached the peaks of the 1930s, and the industry collapsed in the early 1960s. What we have considered a 19th-century industry is better seen as a mid-20th-century industry, one so rapacious that it destroyed itself in a way its 19th-century predecessor lacked the technology to achieve.

Walter Rau was one of the ships in Operation Hannibal, the German evacuation of Courland (Kurland) in 1945, which also included the ill-fated Wilhelm Gustloff.

• But could Unilever actually have been forced to finance her building, as told above? How, at the time, when the Nazis had only just taken power?
  
  If Walter Rau's production capacity is correct, as also told above – who was consuming this much whale meat, canned or frozen? Wasn't some or even most of it going to animal feed, as it did from Scotch shore-based whaling? Again, feeding whale to early concentration camp inmates sounds like the same low regard for it. Some coastal peoples may have a history of eating whale meat. But surely no European whaling fleet depended on that, since oil was the true cash product?

One of our Japanese experts in this forum recalled the use of whale meat in Japan's school lunches of the 1960s, where he had not liked it. Many other Japanese did not like whale either. But it was inexpensive and available, so early on the Occupation authorities had reportedly encouraged its use on to help feed the country. Thus were enough Japanese made to eat it after the war. Before the war, too, the Imperial Army had done the same thing -- it bought whale meat cheap partly because there was no other demand for it, and served it to its soldiers.

It seems, then, that Japan was the only whaling nation that took some of the meat home for direct human consumption, at some scale. Japan reportedly had a large enough stake in Antarctic whaling for supply of the European whale oil market -- and in particular the Germans, with whose fleet she was said to share 30% of the world catch.

Even as history, like the one linked above and the article quoted before it, whaling remains a matter of dispute.

=============================

I have heard of margarine being made out of coal oil ...

So have I, but can't remember where, or whether or not it was part of German ersatz food research. If true it doesn't seem to have gone far. In Europe, whale oil margarine apparently remained more economical in prewar years, before the rise of soybean oil. The American margarine industry did not use it, relying instead on coconut oil, and later cottonseed and soy oils.

-- Alan

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.cgeorgemuller.com/timeline.htm

The third Reich missed a major opportunity to 'stock up' pre war by not exploiting Antartic whaling in the 1930's to the fullest. the whaling fleet woudl have been a major training ground for sailors in rough water conditions,

& the Whale factory ships, plus the whale chasers, could have bewen converted,after the war began, to a full range of auxillaries- everything from AA ships , supply tankers, to fast patrol boats - even to small aircraft carriers!
http://www.whalingtimes.com/Specialised ... 20Page.htm