Whaling

[waldzee]

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2320.html

Built in 1931. four of these cosul have been converted into Ranger size aircraft carriers after 1939...

[phylo_roadking]

False. Numerous small firms processed marine fats! ( Crosbys of newfoundland, for example. It wasn't 'patented'!

Obviously you haven't bothered reading the book; Unilever was THE largest supplier into Germany when Hitler came to power.

you are contradicting yourself . Teh Whaling industry collapsed for two years. ( 1933- 34)

...but took several MORE years to come back out of decline.

Germany has NO NEED of its own whaling industry at that point; technically....NOONE had real need of a whaling industry in those years! The industry was moribund around the world - fleets laid up, few or no new vessels being built etc..

False! The planned war required massive stocks of stored, concentrated food - esp FATS! .Germany was in Autarky in 1933.

What war was planned in 1932-33?

P.S. remember that whale meat (and bones) could be boiled/processed for oil too. You'd need to drill down into production figures by source to actually see IF whale meat was available to be tinned...as opposed to being processed for oil

Pytlo- the meat & bones are rendered to extract the oil .Its not alchemy

Seriously - READ THE BOOK! It's visible now you haven't bothered. The oil rendered from the meat and bones wasn't regarded as of the same quality as that from the blubber...having NOT read the appropriate chapters, you won't for instance have noted the bit where the first British licencing agreement with Norway for the Ross Sea demanded the Norwegians render x-amount of meat/bone oil for x-amount of blubber oil....

You can't both render the meat down for boiling the oil out AND can it for human consumption!!!

See above.You are not thinking in terms of peacetime Autarky & wartime economics.

YOU are not thinking....that the German whaling industry was NOT "nationalised", it was run by private companies! Aspects of it were managed centrally - but it was still private enterprise!

Both Von Papen & Brunning were facedwith massive unemployment & empty shipyards -the best time to build ships, Pylo.

Have you not noticed? The Nazis rapidly began building OTHER things in their shipyards...

BTRW, whale meat was routinely dumped to make room for extra oil, if necessary,inthe days before the IWC.

Exactly! "P.P.S. THEN there's the issue of the weight of thousands of tons of at-that-point-useless whale meat being brought back from the Antartic; every ton of meat carried is a ton of blubber oil NOT carried..."

[waldzee]

You are ignorign the fact that the 'next generation'of factory ships, such as the KosmosI & II, were beign built at the depth of the depression.
the industry was 'shifting' from shore based stations to factory ships. Germany was behind the curve.

http://www.lardex.net/jahre/kosmos_for_50_aar_siden.htm

Re:
riously - READ THE BOOK! It's visible now you haven't bothered. The oil rendered from the meat and bones wasn't regarded as of the same quality as that from the blubber...having NOT read the appropriate chapters, you won't for instance have noted the bit where the first British licencing agreement with Norway for the Ross Sea demanded the Norwegians render x-amount of meat/bone oil for x-amount of blubber oil....

For a two man extended debate, I'll pass

You can't both render the meat down for boiling the oil out AND can it for human consumption!!!
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Actually you can. Esp. for feeding camp inmates, mink, etc. Its called 'cracklings'.

[phylo_roadking]

the industry was 'shifting' from shore based stations to factory ships. Germany was behind the curve.

Read the book. When the Kosmos was being built - Germany wasn't even on the track. It didn't have a whaling industry.

(This incidently was one of THE largest problems they faced in the second half of the decade; the Germans had had two earlier and short periods of whaling...but by 1935 only a handful of surviving veterans of the second of those who were still of working age! They tried to attact Norwegian unempluyyed whalers - both unemployed because of the slump AND because of an ongoing dispute between the British and Norwegians that affected the Norwegian industry! But the Norwegian government was against its citizens owrking in the German industry for some time, and tried their best to block them.)

Actually you can. Esp. for feeding camp inmates, mink, etc. Its called 'cracklings'.

Yes, but you can't tin it for human consumption by the average German citizen in the street!

For a two man extended debate, I'll pass

Well, you've been handed an EXCELLENT source...

You are ignorign the fact that the 'next generation'of factory ships, such as the KosmosI & II, were beign built at the depth of the depression

Actually - no; Kosmos was completed in 1931 by Workman, Clark & Co Ltd, Belfast; in other words, it was built in the year(s) immediately before the whaling industry slump.

[waldzee]

the industry was 'shifting' from shore based stations to factory ships. Germany was behind the curve.

Read the book. When the Kosmos was being built - Germany wasn't even on the track. It didn't have a whaling industry.

(This incidently was one of THE largest problems they faced in the second half of the decade; the Germans had had two earlier and short periods of whaling...but by 1935 only a handful of surviving veterans of the second of those who were still of working age! They tried to attact Norwegian unempluyyed whalers - both unemployed because of the slump AND because of an ongoing dispute between the British and Norwegians that affected the Norwegian industry! But the Norwegian government was against its citizens owrking in the German industry for some time, and tried their best to block them.)

You are ignorign the fact that the 'next generation'of factory ships, such as the KosmosI & II, were beign built at the depth of the depression

Actually - no; Kosmos was completed in 1931 by Workman, Clark & Co Ltd, Belfast; in other words, it was built in the year(s) immediately before the whaling industry slump.

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& Kosmos II was completed when? Along with the other whaling factory ships?

Factory ships were developed in 1925 with rear slipways through which whales could be winched onto the ships. Whales could be killed either in the open ocean or near ice floes and pulled onto the deck for flensing and rendering (Garrett 1981). With this development, the fate of the vast populations of Blue and Fin Whales of the Antarctic was sealed. First the Blue Whales were slaughtered. They stayed close to the pack ice, convenient for both factory ships and moored vessels. More than 15,000 a year were taken in the 1920s, with a high of almost 30,000 in 1930 (Allen 1942). from wiki

[phylo_roadking]

Factory ships were developed in 1925 with rear slipways through which whales could be winched onto the ships. Whales could be killed either in the open ocean or near ice floes and pulled onto the deck for flensing and rendering (Garrett 1981). With this development, the fate of the vast populations of Blue and Fin Whales of the Antarctic was sealed. First the Blue Whales were slaughtered. They stayed close to the pack ice, convenient for both factory ships and moored vessels. More than 15,000 a year were taken in the 1920s, with a high of almost 30,000 in 1930 (Allen 1942).

When?

By definition - BEFORE the slump of the early 1930s! (Only one factory ship and five whalecatchers were built during the slump.)

Kosmos II???

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2320.html

Completed in July 1931 for Hvalfanger-A/S Kosmos II (Anders Jahre), Sandefjord.

Looks like it and Kosmos were built in parallel on the stocks at Workman Clark!

[waldzee]

http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/art ... itain-the-
the 'slump 'was caused by the
refusal of Britian to buy Norways whale oil unless it agreed to strict quotas. The British kept on Whaling, supported by the Royal Navy 'whom maketh the rules'

[phylo_roadking]

http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/art ... itain-the-
the 'slump 'was caused by the refusal of Britian to buy Norways whale oil unless it agreed to strict quotas.

If you actually looked at that closely, you'd see that it dates from 1936, after the industry-wide slump had started to pick up; that particular dispute between the two nations affected Norway - not the world's whaling industry as a whole, unlike the previous slump...but was one of the reasons WHY there were Norwegian ships for the Germans to charter and Norwegian sailors to employ come 1937...Norway's slump continued because of the dispute - whereas every other whaling nation's industry was coming out of the doldrums by 1935-6.

Seriously, just read the chapters in the link I provided. It's going to make life a LOT easier in this thread.

[waldzee]

Seriously, just read the chapters in the link I provided. It's going to make life a LOT easier in this thread.[/quote]
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Conceded re time constraints

[waldzee]

http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/art ... itain-the-
the 'slump 'was caused by the refusal of Britian to buy Norways whale oil unless it agreed to strict quotas.

If you actually looked at that closely, you'd see that it dates from 1936, after the industry-wide slump had started to pick up; that particular dispute between the two nations affected Norway - not the world's whaling industry as a whole, unlike the previous slump...but was one of the reasons WHY there were Norwegian ships for the Germans to charter and Norwegian sailors to employ come 1937...Norway's slump continued because of the dispute - whereas every other whaling nation's industry was coming out of the doldrums by 1935-6.

Seriously, just read the chapters in the link I provided. It's going to make life a LOT easier in this thread.

In all fairness, you have done a lot of research ,Pylo, & the British/Norway dispute had a lot of 'parameters'- including the growing knowledge that the great roquals were beign wiped off the face of the earth.