American money in Nazi Germany

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
john h
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American money in Nazi Germany

Post by john h » 14 Oct 2009 13:15

A number of financial and industrial figures of world war 11 and several members of the american government served the cause of money before the cause of patriotism while aiding the united states war effort they also aided nazi germanys in 1942 standard oil of new jersey managers shipped oil through neutral switzerland to the enemy the chase bank in nazi occupied paris after pearl harbour was doing millions of dollars worth of buisiness with the enemy with the full knowledge of the head office in manhattan or that ford trucks were being built for the german occupation troops in france with authorization from dearborn michigan or that colonel sosthenes behn the head of the international american telephone conglomerate ITT flew from new york to madrid to berne during the war to help improve hitlers communications systems and improve the robot bombs that later devastated london or that ITT built the focke-wulfs that dropped bombs on british and american troops or that crucial ball bearings were shipped ti nazi- associated customers in latin america with the collusion with the vice chairman of the u s war production board in partnership with gorings cousin in philadelphia when american forces were desperately short of them these arrangements were known about in washington they were ether sanctioned or deliberately ignored the reason for all of this its important to consider the size of american investments in nazi germany at the time of pearl harbour it amounted to an estimated total of 475 million standard oil of new jersey had 120 million invested there general motors had 35 million itt had 30 million and ford had 17.5 million also walter schellenberg the gestapo leader of counterintelligence was a prominent director and shareholder of ITT

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Virgil Hiltz
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by Virgil Hiltz » 14 Oct 2009 14:51

Don't forget the Family of President George H. Bush, who did business with AG Thysen.

JamesL
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by JamesL » 14 Oct 2009 15:10

That has got to be the longest sentence in the world.

I gather English is not your first language.

Delta Tank
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Re: AMERICAN MONEY IN NAZI GERMANY

Post by Delta Tank » 15 Oct 2009 19:47

Virgil Hiltz,
Virgil Hiltz wrote: Don't forget the Family of President George H. Bush, who did business with AG Thysen.
Okay, I will bite. Source? Explain. My father did business with numerous brewers from Germany, he drank their beer. so that would make my dad. . .???

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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by cstunts » 16 Oct 2009 18:03

Here are 2 links to something real--with a suspiciously post-modern/current ring to it-- and not speculative at all.

http://www.amazon.com/Crime-Punishment- ... 0029046300

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... r%20Hitler

Fascinating business, but not so edifying. I have linked these because they pertain to Standard Oil's deals with Farben, for which Standard's executives were found guilty later--but given only the lightest slap on the wrist.

Delta Tank
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by Delta Tank » 16 Oct 2009 20:55

To all,

Next someone will post that the US Navy hired the MOB to guard our ports!! Oh, I think that did happen. Was anyone convicted of that crime? Doing government business with a known criminal organization for pay has got to be against the law. Or is it?

Mike

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 08 Nov 2009 21:44

One book fairly easy to find is 'Trading with the Enemy' by Charles Higham . The writing style is a bit awkward or dense, but Higham draws principlly from US courts records, FBI and justice Department documents, ect... Amoung the many connections he finds between US business & nazi Germany are:

Standard Oil & IG Farben. Also Standard Oil involvement in Rumanian and Hungarian oil refinery development from 1939 & into 1942.

Standard Oil tanker deliveries 1939 to 1942 to oil depots in the Spanish Azores & Cape Verde islands, where German submarines also refuled.

Chase Bank of New York & the Bank of International Settlements in Switizerland which was dominated by German board members, and with the German based Reichs Bank. Note Rockefeller was a key stockholder and officer in both Standard Oil and Chase Bank.

DuPont Chemical a co owner of Analine Dye, along with I G Farben.

Ford Motor Company which owned a automotive factory in Germany.

Davis Oil Company, which was financed by in its set up in the mid 1930s by German banks. Davis Oil principally operated in Texas and Mexico.

American International Telephone and Telegraph, which had a 'exclusive arraignment with many of Europes Facist governments, including contracts with the German Gestapo. Note its subsidiary AT&T had the contract for the radio and telephone links & scrambler security equipment between the US embassy in London and Washington DC. ITT German offices were doing much the same for the Gestapo into 1942.

Sosthens Behn a principle stockholder and chief officer of ITT & AT&T was also a principle investor & a board member of of the international ball bearing conglomerate SKF that was HQ in Sweden. SKF sold ball bearings to Germany from its factories across the globe until cut off by advancing Allied armies. Shipments from Sweden did not taper off until 1945.

Higham traces these connections from their origin as legitimate normal business in the 1920s or earlier, through the infatuation of the their principles with the nazi movement (Henry Ford, Irene DuPont, Rockafeller, ect... shared a dislike of Jews with the nazis.) All the men Higham mentions were financial supporters of the American First, & similar organizations in the US Isolationist movement. After the DoW between the US and Germany it took up to two years of pressure from the US Justice department, miscl Congressmen, US military intellegence services, US State Department, to disconnect the businesses as usual from nazi Germany.
Last edited by Carl Schwamberger on 10 Nov 2009 01:57, edited 1 time in total.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 08 Nov 2009 21:54

Delta Tank wrote:To all,

Next someone will post that the US Navy hired the MOB to guard our ports!! Oh, I think that did happen. Was anyone convicted of that crime? Doing government business with a known criminal organization for pay has got to be against the law. Or is it?

Mike
Not specifically. There are and have been a wide variety of regulations & laws the overlap from one direction or another into this area. ie: were bribes made in winning these contracts? Were qualification documents faked or forged? Any nepotism regulations violated? Were convicted criminals barred from appying for these contracts? "known criminal organization" is something of a vague label. Identifying a bidding organization for a contract as a criminal organization is a bit problematic as the various Mobs, Gangs, Families, ect were skilled at establishing new 'front' organizations.

There are plenty of stories in circulation about the Allied port operating units and supply battalions having to reach agreements with the south Italian and Scillian gangs to reduce the theft and interferance with supplying Allied armies in Italy.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by phylo_roadking » 08 Nov 2009 22:27

Sosthens Behn a principle stockholder and chief officer of ITT & AT&T was also a principle investor & a board member of of the international ball bearing conglomerate SKF that was HQ in Sweden. SKF sold ball bearings to Germany from its factories across the globe until cut off by advancing Allied armies. Shipments from Sweden did not taper off until 1945.
And let's not forget that it sold JUST as many to the BRITISH... :wink:

The story of ITT is not that simple either. It's a bit of an exaggeration to call it an "American" company - it was more of a mid-20th century multinational. Sosthenes Behn was born in St. Thomas, Danish West Indies. His ancestry was Danish/German on his paternal side, and French on his maternal side. He ONLY became a citizen of the U.S. as a result of the U.S. BUYING the Danish West Indies as the U.S. Virgin Islands.

The Behn brothers risked their luck almost entirely abroad, their "American corporation" status only being as a result of owning the MacKay companies' Postal Telegraph and Cable Corporation (which eventually became part of Western Union)...FROM 1928 TO 1930! Once they divested themselves of these in 1930, they seem to have had NO actual business interests in the U.S. again until after the war! As for the company itself, it had been HUGE in European electonics and communications for some considerable time before the war, nearly two decades; its affiliates and owned companies in Europe were quite independent of American control

As for Focke-Wulf - ITT didn't own 25%of Focke-Wulf directly. It only "owned" it by owning Focke-Wulf's parent Lorenz Company.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by phylo_roadking » 08 Nov 2009 22:47

Ford Motor Company which owned a automotive factory in Germany.
...and as with so many other American company's overseas affiliates/offshoots in Germany - it was "nationalised" by the Germans in early 1942. If their executives were acceptable to the Nazis - the CEO of the German branch of Coca-Cola was "approved", and a couple of German executives of the company were longstanding NSDAP members - they were allowed to remain in position.

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Ostkatze
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by Ostkatze » 09 Nov 2009 04:19

Phylo, you're quite right about ITT. Long before GE took on the mantle, ITT was the first multinational conglomerate specializing in credit rating as a corporation pre se, be it in dog food, insurance, hotels, carbon black, restaurants...
" One book asy to find is 'Trading with the Enemy' by Charles Higham. "
Guess you meant easy, but also could be assy. Thanks to the Bushes there was an unfortunate glut of big money conspiracy chat out there for a while. And most of it is just too easy. Of course the sons of the ultra wealthy were set up with investment portfolios and Germany offered values. At least Prescott Bush ( and his wife, daughter of George H. Walker ) and his partner Averill Harriman were reimbursed by the govt ( c.$8mill each? ) after the war for Trading with the Enemy confiscation.
Must confess that my personal favourite for keeping it in the family is William Rockefeller's sons, who married the daughters of James Stillman, humble railroad and bank owner. Green with Envy, Neilly.

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bf109 emil
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by bf109 emil » 09 Nov 2009 05:54

Virgil Hiltz wrote:Don't forget the Family of President George H. Bush, who did business with AG Thysen.
maybe the inheritance tax which is currently 0% should be changed to a system such as Japan's which is taxed heavily and requires inheriting person to pay a large sum, which would simply deal a blow to long established families and require each to make money upon his own work/ethic as opposed to family money contributing to retain wealth through deceased persons
TAX BASE, JPY (US$)
TAX RATE
Up to 10,000,000 (US$93,711)
10%
10,000,000 – 30,000,000 (US$281,133)
15%
30,000,000 – 50,000,000 (US$468,555)
20%
50,000,000 – 100,000,000 (US$937,111)
30%
100,000,000 – 300,000,000 (US$2,811,332)
40%
Over 300,000,000 (US$2,811,332)
50%
meaning each generation of Bush's would loose 50% of inheritance from his coffers to be passed down based on Japans current tax guide...and IIRC this percent has come down from what it used to be a number of years backhttp://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia ... nheritance

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bf109 emil
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by bf109 emil » 09 Nov 2009 06:02

john h wrote
or that ford trucks were being built for the german occupation troops in france with authorization from dearborn michigan
hmmm the Nazi's where not around in 1912 or in 1925 when trucks started to be manufactured where they?
The earliest presence of the Ford Company in Germany was a parts operation set up in Hamburg in 1912. It was not until 1925 that an assembly plant was constructed in Berlin where Model T trucks were made from imported parts. Cars followed in 1926. using simply wiki as a sourcehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Germany

but it is kinda comical In spite of the heavy bombing of Cologne, the factory got off relatively lightly and after the war production was able to restart in May 1945 with truck manufacture, the US government having paid $1.1 million in consideration of bombing damage :lol: :lol:

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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by South » 09 Nov 2009 11:20

Good morning John H,

Re your "at the time of Pearl Harbor" just about all the "american investments" were lawful operations as per the US regulatory schemes.

FDR knew about what you wrote above.

Probably unavailable through routine channels but preparing a national economy for a war footing is addressed in:

"Administeration of Mobilization WW II", Industrial College of the Armed Forces, Washington, D.C.

Some chapter titles:

-Facing the failure of neutrality
-Laying Administrative Foundations
-Coordinating the War Agencies

Many of the economic issues really distill down to political issues.

Do note that FDR's main (or one of the main) problem(s) was the "Isolationists" in Congress. This ws the real issue.

Once FDR got Congress to accept that a state of war exists with Japan, the rest was administrative procedures.


Warm regards,

Bob

South
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Re: American money in Nazi germany

Post by South » 09 Nov 2009 11:59

Good morning Carl,

You've touched on a point that has major implications - even today - in re economic activities and a nation's preparation for war.

The issue is whether the US Government is obliged to take actions to close down a US corporation's PARTIALLY-owned (let's say 40% US owned and 60% foreign [pending enemy] owned) subsidiary.

I think it distills down into a political question for FDR and Congress (and the same today).

Two doctrines probably governing how a President and Congress address the situation;

Cui Bobo - who benefits ?

and

Summum bonum - highest or greatest good (eg Churchill re Coventry)

Probably the best publication to deal with this situation is something like:

"The Capital Source", by National Journal, quarterly pub with one tabbed section titled "Corporate and Professional". The subcategories are:

-Corporations
-Think Tanks
-Trade and Professional Associations
-Public Relations, Advertising and Political Consultants
-Interest Groups
-Labor Unions
-Lobbyists and Law Firms

Like Bismarck said, the public really shouldn't know how their laws are prepared.


Warm regards,

Bob

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