German Railways in the East

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 19 Jan 2015 16:20

From our comrades over at Lexikon der Wehrmacht

Bibliography
http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/index ... Eisenbahn/

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 23 Jan 2015 14:01

What I cannot work our is what " der Arge Eisenbahn" means.

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 23 Jan 2015 14:17

From http://www.dumjahn.de/
0011429_karte_1.pdf
0011429_karte_2.pdf
0011429_karte_3.pdf
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GregSingh
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by GregSingh » 24 Jan 2015 03:56

Arge = Arbeitsgemeinschaft :D
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 25 Jan 2015 11:11

Greg
Have you found this book:

Title Die Generaldirektion der Ostbahn in Krakau: 1939 - 1945 ; ein Beitrag zur Geschichte d. dt. Eisenbahnen im 2. Weltkrieg
Author Werner Pischel
Publisher Springer, 1964
Length 80 pages

also this article mazowsze.hist.pl "Walka z transportem kolejowym w dystrykcie warszawskim" part 1 is 2006 and part II 2007.

and do you have a copy of Schuler (if not PM me)

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by faza » 29 Jan 2015 00:49

[quote="GregSingh"]Unfortunately I can't find any photo of Seversky Donets bridge at Belaya Kalitwa from 1942.
AXoRDA_hfH8.jpg
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by GregSingh » 29 Jan 2015 03:09

:welcome:

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the photo, faza.
I wonder how did it end up in Finnish Army Archives?
Apparently it was taken in October 1942.
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 29 Jan 2015 09:28

Excellent find. Just to remind people what we are discussing, the photo refers to this post http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1876173 about the main bridge over the Don on the route to Stalingrad.

One point of interest is that we have the bridge as being 250 m long and only slightly damaged and repaired in a matter of weeks, yet in the picture all the sections are lying in the river.

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by GregSingh » 29 Jan 2015 10:35

about the main bridge over the Don on the route to Stalingrad
Seversky Donets! :D
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by faza » 29 Jan 2015 13:59

Der Alte Fritz wrote:Excellent find. Just to remind people what we are discussing, the photo refers to this post http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1876173 about the main bridge over the Don on the route to Stalingrad.

One point of interest is that we have the bridge as being 250 m long and only slightly damaged and repaired in a matter of weeks, yet in the picture all the sections are lying in the river.
A few more photos of the bridge. I have no data on the timing of repair, but two weeks is not real.
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 29 Jan 2015 17:43

The pictures show that the bridge is almost completed and is being finished off - tracks not yet connected all the way across, working platforms slung beneath the roadway, etc. So if this is dated October that would fit in with the Eisenbahnpioniere account of changing the gauge of the track in early October and the first G8 hauled train arriving at the start of October, followed by a couple of accidents in the first two weeks of October.

From the sound of this the bridge was destroyed by the retreating Soviets and was repaired over the period August September. However at 250m long each of those spans is only 50m wide and I think that this can be be bridged by standard bridging equipment.

Of note, like most Soviet/Russian bridges it only carries one track

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by GregSingh » 04 Feb 2015 11:34

Early in 1943 (6th of March) a proposal was put to construct following railroads in the area of Army Group Centre to supply new front line units after elimination of Rzhev Salient:

1. Jelnja - Front line
32km of 600mm narrow gauge line to Shidkaja (7.ID area) and further to Uschakowa (252.ID area)

2. Safonowo - Dorogobush
Normal gauge line to supply 102, 337 and 35.ID

3. Normal gauge: Smolensk-Ost - Ssawino - Fedjajewo - Beressnewo - Front line
Normal or narrow gauge from above railroad - road crossing (15km north of Duchowschtschina) to Ribschewo.
All to supply 52, 197 and 110.ID

4. Rudnja - Demidoff - Front line
First link: Demidoff - Ssossnowka - Wystawka
Second link: Ssossnowka - Ivanowa
Third link: Rudnja - Demidoff
All 750mm narrow gauge to supply 251, 330 and 256.ID

5. Upgrade of existing normal gauge line Gorodok - Weretschje.
New connection to Weretschje narrow gauge station.

Narrow gauge link Weretschje - Front line.

Weretsche - Nowoje Kukowo (17km) - Botschkar (+19km) - Lugawskija (+4km)
Nowoje Kukowo to supply Lw.Feld-Div.4, Botschkar and Lugawskija to supply Lw.Feld-Div.3
Luftwaffe to provide railroad hardware.
--------------------
More to follow...

Source: NARA T311 R224 Frames: 124,125,126
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by GregSingh » 05 Feb 2015 06:31

It seems that a new front line was in difficult terrain - forests, lakes and marshes. Good to defend, not so to supply units.
No major roads, exceptions being Witebsk - Welish and Smolensk - Jarzewo (part of Minsk-Moscow highway). Two major railway hubs were close: Witebsk and Smolensk.

I attached a map with planned railroads in black dotted lines. Base map from WWII Aerial Photos and Maps

Safonowo-Dorogobush link was already on the map. Smolensk-Ost - Beressnewo line was labelled as "construction in progress".
Existing line Gorodok - Weretschje was slightly wrong placed on the map.

Map is from 4th of May 1943, some units moved around since early March.
Army Group Centre 4.5.43.jpg
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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 07 Feb 2015 14:59

Excellent find.
It clearly shows the HG Mitte settling down to a Stellungskreig and setting up supply lines using narrow or light railways.

Of interest is Koruck 582 based outside Smolensk which was the headquarters of the Army Group Rear. By this point in the war, both the Army Rear Headquarters and Army Group Rear Headquarters were covering only a very narrow area (20-50km) behind the front line and this was the area under military control. Behind them were the civilian/SS/Police areas of the Reichs Kommisariats. Smolensk to Orscha is 120 km and the Heer commands the area to just behind Smolensk.
The Security Division 286 is HG Mitte's main rear area security and covers the main line of communication home.

It is also worth noting that all the main reserve units are all sitting on railway lines behind the front, ready to move laterally.

I did see a few pages earlier than these ones, some pages about railway construction units?

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Re: German Railways in the East

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 07 Feb 2015 16:31

Had a quick search through the Sturmpanzer NARA guides for Heerengruppe (http://downloads.sturmpanzer.com/Guides ... orted.pdf) and cross referenced against Jeff Leech's listing (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6#p1927236) to find these items concerning railways:

HG Mitte: R224 Frame 84-128 (which includes Greg's item above) R233 Frame 228
HG Don: R270 Frame 796, R271 all and R272 all
HG Nord: R80 Frame 7104608
HG Sud: R256 Frame 650, R274 Frame 1 R296 Frame 249

If I get the chance I will post the relevant listings from HG Index but you can find them easily enough searching for the words "rail" "eisenbahn" "feldbahn" "kodeis" etc.

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