Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

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jillsivertson
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by jillsivertson » 03 Apr 2016 00:19

trekker wrote:I have heard positive answers to the title question but I haven't had time to research it myself. I would appreciate opinions about the following:

It has become a common practice of the USA to impose trade and financial sanctions on adversary states which are binding for the US companies. Couldn't the USA do that in 1939-41? The war was on and the nature of the nazi regime was known even if not in every detail.

The US as a "country" did not support Nazi Germany. Although the US was filled with sympathizers. Ford, for example gave the Nazi party all their profit from automobiles sold in Germany. They're were many American business barons who applauded the Nazis and felt they did wonders for Germany. That's why the US did not hit them with sanctions. Big business wouldn't hear of it.

ljadw
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by ljadw » 03 Apr 2016 10:34

This is not correct : Ford Germany was legally separated from Ford US

OpanaPointer
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by OpanaPointer » 03 Apr 2016 13:07

jillsivertson wrote:
The US as a "country" did not support Nazi Germany. Although the US was filled with sympathizers.
"Filled" is an ambigous term. I think you chose that deliberately.
Ford, for example gave the Nazi party all their profit from automobiles sold in Germany.
Handled already.
They're were many American business barons who applauded the Nazis and felt they did wonders for Germany.
Before the war, there were no doubt some who did. During the war it would have been a bad idea.
That's why the US did not hit them with sanctions. Big business wouldn't hear of it.
Proof required.
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trekker
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by trekker » 04 Apr 2016 10:50

In my opnion, to say that the USA supported Nazi Germany at least one of the following has to be proven:
1) a substantial part of American companies did business with nazi Germany, including products and services important for the German war industry
2) the USA as a state (its administration) helped or didn't prevent American companies doing business with nazi Germany.

As it seems, Standard Oil as a large American company did business with Germany with products important for the German war industry (i.e. Tetraethyllead) but if alone it is not enough to say that the USA supported Nazi Germany. The fact that Standard Oil was under congressional investigation during WWII and was put on trial after WWII suggests that the USA as a state did not support nazi Germany. On the other hand, one can find suggestions that managers and owners of Standad Oil had close contacts with some people within US agencies, including intelligence.

Clearly, nothing can be regarded as true beyond what has been proven while suppresing discussion is against raison d'être of AHF. What is wished here are presentations of what has already been published about the topic and their assessments. So far, that has been done about (part of) the claims that Standard Oil supplied oil to Germany.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 04 Apr 2016 11:10

Double post. See below.
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 04 Apr 2016 11:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 04 Apr 2016 11:11

From the first months of the war the Neutrality Act, although couched in even-handed, neutralist terms, effectively favoured the British, who controlled the sea.

There was no legal or moral reason why US companies shouldn't trade with Britain and Germany equally in 1939-41, but in practice only the former was accessible.

Roosevelt knew this when the neutrality legislation was enacted and he warped it further when Britain was isolated in 1940-41. For example, while US-flagged merchant vessels couldn't legally enter the warzone to trade with either the UK or Germany, if reflagged as Panamanian they could. This only benefitted the British, who controlled the sealanes.

As a matter of interest, is there any record of any US exports in US ships to Germany through the British blockade after 1939?

Cheers,

Sid,

OpanaPointer
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by OpanaPointer » 05 Apr 2016 22:41

I imagine they would have had a hard time getting an export license. Plus anything the Germans wanted the British probably wanted as well, and dealing with the British would have been less dicey.
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jillsivertson
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by jillsivertson » 27 May 2016 12:43

Ok maybe I went to far. The word filled was maybe a bad choice of word. I will stand by my comment about Ford.After doing some more reseach I found that Chase Manhattan Bank aided The Nazi party in seizing the assets of many Parisian Jews, although I admit that I didn't find evidence that thay financially aided the Nazi party. The Brown Brothers Harriman came up as aiding the Nazis. During the thirties Fritz Thyssen ran a business which he used to help Adolf Hitler's rise to power. I will research this topic further. The US may not have been "filled" with sympothizers, but I'm sure there are more businesses in the US who aided the Nazi's and/or Nazi Germany.

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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 27 May 2016 13:25

Hi jillsilvertson,

An elegant partial withdrawal.

However, I would question why you exempt Ford? Have you any evidence that he himself gave money to the Nazi party, or that he directed anyone else to?

As was pointed out above, Ford Germany was a separate legal entity from Ford USA. Did Ford himself even have the status in the German company to oblige it to hand over money to the Nazis, or to stop local executives from doing so?

Cheers,

Sid.

jillsivertson
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by jillsivertson » 28 May 2016 20:12

Hello, Sid Guttridge Henry Ford was given the Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle from Nazi officials in1938. Yes he may have been a seperate entity than the US. Henry Ford was not a seperate entity from Ford Europe. It was Henry Fords decision to donate Ford motor company profit from cars sold in Germany to the Nazi party. I have to agree that the US did not have a policy of backing the Nazi German economy. I absolutely do not excempt Ford quite the oppisite.

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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 02 Jun 2016 13:25

Hi jillsilvertson,

OK, to pursue the proposition that "It was Henry Fords decision to donate Ford motor company profit from cars sold in Germany to the Nazi party.", what is the source?

Cheers,

An intrigued Sid.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 10 Jun 2016 05:44

Well you can always look for stuff like

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-american- ... -nazis.php

Image


Also , I heard that the USAAF did not bomb Ford plants under orders from "higher up".i.e. an FDR/Ford "deal"
And Ford kept his profits from Ford in Germany (at the time), he did not donate them to the Nazi party or provide financial tosupport the NSDAP during the war. Post War, after Ford's death, some of those "profits" may have been given in part to some survivor groups, but don't quote me on that.

As to other source, I recall "Who Financed Hitler" https://www.amazon.com/Who-Financed-Hit ... entries*=0 was a not totally bad book on the subject (fairly good, IMO, a little tiresome at timesIIRC), though my copy is long buried after being bought and read once when published

Does any of this mean the USA supported Germany during the war ? NO

ljadw
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by ljadw » 10 Jun 2016 06:40

The first stuff is a lot of nonsense.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 13 Jun 2016 11:54

Hi Christopher Perrien,

I can't take the first (Top Ten List of.....) link as a serious source as it is without any sources at all. Furthermore, it seems to simplistically equate the presence of US companies in Germany with support for the Nazis.

The second source appears much more respectable, but only deals with the Nazis' rise to power prior to 1933, when they had no record of government to criticize, however distasteful some of their pronouncements.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Did the US support Nazi-Germany?

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 13 Jun 2016 17:23

Sid Guttridge wrote:Hi Christopher Perrien,
I can't take the first (Top Ten List of.....) link as a serious source as it is without any sources at all. Furthermore, it seems to simplistically equate the presence of US companies in Germany with support for the Nazis.
The second source appears much more respectable, but only deals with the Nazis' rise to power prior to 1933, when they had no record of government to criticize, however distasteful some of their pronouncements.

Cheers,

Sid.
The first was of course meant as a joke. I only posted it to show how easy it is to find US multinational companies who did business in the NSDAP run Germany at some point during its existence.

The second source while serious is actually much the same thing(some US companies did business there pre-war and some American citizens supported the NSDAP. However neither , nor anywhere else is there found "support" by the USA , which is obviously meant to infer the USA government (the directing entity) supported NSDAP run Germany. To the contrary, the first opposition of the USA can be surely be associated and identified with to when FDR started selectively working around the Neutrality Laws to support and send arms to Britain and also support the embargo of arms and war material to Germany.
Which was pre-WWII,so somewhere between 1935-1936. I won't go further as it would demand more recollection of USA gov and FDR's policies and actions during that time, which I can't remember much of at this time to say anything with assurance. I'll just say the USA was actively opposing NSDAP run Germany within a couple years of the NSDAP coming to power in mid- 1933.

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