Was Oil the Germans "Weakest Link"?

[R. J. Kimmel]

My feeling is that if it were not for Lend Lease the British would have been soundly defeated and good o'l Winnie could have put his cigar where the sun doesn't shine. The U.S. would have not had England for a jumping off point, there would not have been a D-day invasion, less Americans would have lost their lives and Germany would not have had to fight a two front war.

Just food for thought.


KILROY [retired] WAS HERE

Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total

[admfisher]

In Panzer Commader by Col von Luck he states in his opinion the modility of the Red Army could not have been achieved with out the trucks, locamatives and steel track sent to the soviet union.

In the end both the UK, Russia and the other nations under the Lend-Lease program recived some 4 300 000 000 dollars in aid.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

In Panzer Commader by Col von Luck he states in his opinion the modility of the Red Army could not have been achieved with out the trucks, locamatives and steel track sent to the soviet union.

In the end both the UK, Russia and the other nations under the Lend-Lease program recived some 4 300 000 000 dollars in aid.

By 1943 Soviet Light tanks (T-70) and light SPs - (SU-76) became virtually useless. The main production line for the was GAZ factory with peacetime output 130000 cars and trucks per year. Should there be demand for more trucks SP production could be stopped. LL trucks while very good trucks had one unfortunate disadvantage -the were able to only on LL supplied gas. On every LL truck that went to USSR Soviets installed little reminder – “Driver do not feed it diesel fuel – it is not a polutorka” , polutorka – is the nickname for the GAZ truck. In fact problem became so sever that in the end of 1944 decided that there were no reason to import more vehicles unless LL could supply more gas for them.

[Richard Murphy]

Precisely HOW was Germany going to knock the UK out of the war?

With a short ranged air force that could not strike a target north of Watford with fighter support (And losing the services of those aircrew shot down.)?

With a fleet that would have spent the best part of 2 Km. within the range of British naval guns (Not to mention bombers.) before even getting within range to strike back?

By landing totally unsupported (Though utterly committed.) Fsj. within the most heavily defended zone in the UK?

By "starving" them into surrender when U-Boats were totally incapable of sinking more ships than were being constructed?

By "persuading" the UK that all Germany wanted was "Living Space" when German mothers were being rewarded for producing six or more children?

How????

Regards from the Park.

Rich

PS; Oil wasn't Germanys "Weakest Link", Hitler was (And he wasn't even German!).

[admfisher]

Oleg, I have picture of the soviet army using lend lease equip till the end of the war. In your earlier post you point out there was no real shippments of truck till 43, but that is when you say that your country was building its own. So what did all the trucks get used for?
Or how about this if your country was so self sufficent from 43 on why did we in the west waste lives trying to get tanks, trucks, steam locamotives, grain, vital metals, planes and so on, to your country?
I would say it was because you needed them and wanted them.
An allie who helps another should not keep saying your help really didnt mean that much to us.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Oleg, I have picture of the soviet army using lend lease equip till the end of the war. In your earlier post you point out there was no real shippments of truck till 43, but that is when you say that your country was building its own. So what did all the trucks get used for?
Or how about this if your country was so self sufficent from 43 on why did we in the west waste lives trying to get tanks, trucks, steam locamotives, grain, vital metals, planes and so on, to your country?
I would say it was because you needed them and wanted them.
An allie who helps another should not keep saying your help really didnt mean that much to us.

No, I said it could build its own. It did not do it because LL covered it. Your countries did that because it allowed Soviet Soldiers to fight more efficiently thus spearing the necessity to waste life’s of your soldiers. Btw this is the point of view that people who were responsible for LL held at the time – the did consider it the best investment possible.

[admfisher]

Oleg,
We shipped to your country to help keep it alive.

If you want to get into something about how we used LL to spare our own skins, then forget it.

Didn't Russia invade first Finland then Poland? Yes they did. Point being, you were an allie of the axis, when we were mobilizing to fight Hitler.

Maybe you think Dieppe was a show that we put on so we wouldn't have to enter France untill enough germans had been beaten.

We fought in the Pacific, North Africa, Sicily, Italy and then Europe from 39 to 45.

Do you forget the bombing offence that started at the beginning of the war and lasted till the end. My friend we were dying to get rid of the Nazi goverment.

The dead speak for themselves, they died trying to beat Hitler. They did not die putting on a show so that we could wait till the plum was ripe for picking.

When it comes down to it why are you trying to belittle the aid you were given. I don't recall any aid coming to Canada from Russia, and like I said we were at war with Hitler longer than Russia.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Oleg,
We shipped to your country to help keep it alive.

well considering that in 1941 and 1942 the most critical years we received virtually - zilch. ... but anyway on multiple occasion I said

If you want to get into something about how we used LL to spare our own skins, then forget it.

You are arguing with Churchill, Roosevelt, Hopkins, Settenikus here - not with me.

Didn't Russia invade first Finland then Poland? Yes they did. Point being, you were an allied of the axis, when we were mobilizing to fight Hitler.

No first Poland then Finland. And we were not an ally of Germany or we would go through France together and the gang up on Britain. And you continently left out the fact that in 1938 USSR was the only European power who opposed Munich - it even mobilized its army and asked Poland for corridors to Czechoslovakia - it was denied and Poland got part of Slovakia. So were you fighting in 1938?

Maybe you think Dieppe was a show that we put on so we wouldn't have to enter France untill enough germans had been beaten.

Was it a major attempt to set foot in France?

We fought in the Pacific, North Africa, Sicily, Italy and then Europe from 39 to 45.

Which amounted to 20% of German casualties - the rest was inflicted form 1941 to 1945 on the EF.

Do you forget the bombing offence that started at the beginning of the war and lasted till the end. My friend we were dying to get rid of the Nazi government.

and I denied it where?

The dead speak for themselves, they died trying to beat Hitler. They did not die putting on a show so that we could wait till the plum was ripe for picking.

well by the time you got really involved (that is Normandy) the war was pretty much won.

When it comes down to it why are you trying to belittle the aid you were given. I don't recall any aid coming to Canada from Russia, and like I said we were at war with Hitler longer than Russia.

were you fighting Hitler on you territory?

On multiple occasions I stated that I am not putting down allied effort – for crying outlood they wote books about it in USSR and made moovies -during the cold war - the fact however is that the 1941-1943 USSR was fighting its war with little outside help.

[admfisher]

Oleg,
You just cant be happy can you. I am not saying without the LL you would of lost the war. But I am tired of Russians saying how little it helped. Not once did you mention the food or the trains that were sent. How about the treatment of the saliors who got it to you. Least you would thank them.
You say your nation was going to fight the germans in 38, then why The Non Agression Act.
And why the attack on Poland? Espically when you were ready to fight the germans in 38 for the czechs.
The Non Aggression Pact allowed Hitler to overrun the west. If you say that your two nations were against each other then when the Germans attacked west why not take the ball and run with it. Take the rest of Poland and roll up to the german border. That would of shaken Hitler while he was trying to fight in the west.

Hitler attacked your nation, thats not my choice.
The losses were tremendous. But there was a waste of manpower more than once in the east.
The human mine detectors....

[Oleg Grigoryev]

But I am tired of Russians saying how little it helped. Not once did you mention the food or the trains that were sent. How about the treatment of the saliors who got it to you. Least you would thank them. I did on the other threads. Sailors were treated as well as our resources permitted.

You say your nation was going to fight the germans in 38, then why The Non Aggression Act.
And why the attack on Poland? Non aggression pact was Soviet way of returning a favor that West gave to Soviets via Munich – that is turning Hitler East. As for attack on Poland – nether Poland nor Western democracies considered that an attack. Churchill actually said that it was imperative for USSR to move to western Ukraine and Byelorussia in order to secure its borders. We also had non-aggression pact with Japan – does that make it USSR an ally of Japan?

Espically when you were ready to fight the germans in 38 for the czechs.
Because we were not about fight the alone the war that British and French proclaimed – their value as allies were very much exposed in 1940.


The Non Aggression Pact allowed Hitler to overrun the west. No lousy war preparations and lousy pre-war politics on the part of the West allowed Hitler to overrun the west. USSR was conducting talks with the west prior to nonaggression pact – west seemed to be rather uninterested

If you say that your two nations were against each other then when the Germans attacked west why not take the ball and run with it. Take the rest of Poland and roll up to the german border because we were in the middle of reorganizing and rearming our army. What stopped the West from overrunning weak German covering force in 1939 and help Poland - the very thing they promised.

Btw what human mine detectors?