Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Discussions on the fortifications & artillery used by the Axis forces.
Artee
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Artee » 22 Feb 2017 00:42

Sam,

Great effort finding (and posting) the information on Artillerie-Regiment 1716 (et al). It's particularly interesting that as early as 18 Dec 43 there was the intention to create 11./1716 ie. then indicated as "neusufstellung" - which on 06Jun44 was the battery "Graf Waldersee" equipped with six 15 cm sFH 13 (Sf) at Plumetot...NOT to be confused with 10./1716 which was then equipped with four 15,5cm sFH 414(f)...

Thanks!
Artee

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AW
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby AW » 16 Nov 2017 16:47

1jj1z.jpg
Hello,
I am still looking for this map... can anybody help me with the archivnumber?
greetz
Alex
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jopaerya
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby jopaerya » 15 Feb 2018 09:36

Not from 1944 but end 1943 with a lot of known names and also 10.5 cm K.331 (f) ( NARA )
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Sheldrake
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Sheldrake » 15 Feb 2018 10:55

jopaerya wrote:Not from 1944 but end 1943 with a lot of known names and also 10.5 cm K.331 (f) ( NARA )


Google Translates the opening paragraphs

In des plan zur umbewaffnung der artillerie sind enthalten die 6 x 10.5 cm K331 (f), die dem general kommando neu sugewiesen und z.zt. wgen Uberholungsarbeiten noch nicht eingeset sind. Weiterhin nfehlen in der planung 4 x 15.5 cm s.f.h 414(f) fuer die III./716. Auf Grund des den general Kommando nur Verfuegung stehenden Geraete und der in der Planung vosgesehenen Zufuehrungen wird nachstehende de Bewaffnung unter Veraussetzung der Erfuellung der unter B gestelleten Antruege vergeschlagen.


The plan for the rearmament of the artillery includes the 6 x 10.5 cm K331 (f), which has been reconstructed(?) by the General Command and is currently being retired.(withdrawn) Overhaul work has not yet started. Furthermore, 4 x 15.5 cm s.f.h 414 (f) for the III./716 are missing in the planning.

On the basis of the equipment available to the general command and the supplies planned in the planning, the following arming will be postponed, subject to the fulfillment of the claims made under B.

The paragraphs headed B are missing from the extract. So the Germans postponed the rearming in A.

jopaerya
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby jopaerya » 15 Feb 2018 11:32

Thanks Sheldrake :thumbsup:

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TH
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby TH » 15 Feb 2018 18:01

Sheldrake wrote:The plan for the rearmament of the artillery includes the 6 x 10.5 cm K331 (f), which has been reconstructed(?) by the General Command and is currently being retired.(withdrawn) Overhaul work has not yet started. Furthermore, 4 x 15.5 cm s.f.h 414 (f) for the III./716 are missing in the planning.


Small correction: The plan does not include the newly assigned 6 x 10.5 cm K 331 (f), which are currently in maintenance.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Sheldrake » 15 Feb 2018 19:45

TH wrote:
Sheldrake wrote:The plan for the rearmament of the artillery includes the 6 x 10.5 cm K331 (f), which has been reconstructed(?) by the General Command and is currently being retired.(withdrawn) Overhaul work has not yet started. Furthermore, 4 x 15.5 cm s.f.h 414 (f) for the III./716 are missing in the planning.


Small correction: The plan does not include the newly assigned 6 x 10.5 cm K 331 (f), which are currently in maintenance.


interesting how google's literal translation results in the opposite meaning!

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Manuferey
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Manuferey » 16 Feb 2018 01:15

Interesting to note that for a very short period in November 1943, Art.-Rgt 1709 and 1716 were called Art.-Rgt 709 and 716 respectfully. AR 1711 was in the same situation. But it created a risk of confusion with three artillery units that existed since 1939, thus, a few years before the 709, 711 and 716 ID were raised:

schwere Artillerie-Abteilung 709
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /AA709.htm

schwere Artillerie-Abteilung 711
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /AA711.htm

schwere Artillerie-Abteilung 716
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /AA716.htm

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby schwarzermai » 16 Feb 2018 07:26

Hello Emmanuel,

no - the document shows just a plan for rearmament. No word about offers for designation of the unit.
please do not make the mistake and overrated the numbering.
Only Org.Abt. and B.d.E. can give orders for designation.

So i think 709/716 is just a typo.

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Manuferey
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Manuferey » 17 Feb 2018 01:07

Thanks for the info, uwe.

Emmanuel

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Valtoro
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Valtoro » 16 May 2018 11:44

A follow-up from the thread "Juno Beach" (viewtopic.php?f=70&t=206361)
The following pictures of the map was copied from the FB-group "MCN Militaria Collector's Network" (direct link to map: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1)
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Valtoro
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Valtoro » 16 May 2018 11:46

And the last two photos.
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Sheldrake
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Sheldrake » 17 May 2018 00:22

Great maps.
About the map marking.

Triangles usually depict an OP.

Is KB stand short for something like Kampf Beobachter stand i.e. battle observation post?

If so Abt B Stand might mean battalion OP.

so what does the "N" in N B Stand mean?

Artee
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Artee » 17 May 2018 00:39

Valtoro,

Great effort!!!

Of immediate note is an OP apparently located at WN35a (not Mont Fleury Battery). This helps dispell the stupid myth, created by WO 291/246 etc, that there was no German Artillery fire in the British/Canadian sectors on 06June - that is, on the beaches, and, inland.

Takk igjen Valtoro!
Artee


Sheldrake.... Abt.B.St is indeed the abbreviation for: Abteilung Beobachtungsstelle ie. Battalion Observation Post.
Last edited by Artee on 17 May 2018 01:52, edited 1 time in total.

Richard Anderson
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Re: Artillery in Normandy 6.6.1944

Postby Richard Anderson » 17 May 2018 01:50

Artee wrote:Valtoro,

Great effort!!!


Agree.

Of immediate note is an OP apparently located at WN35a (not Mont Fleury Battery). All this helps dispell the stupid myth (created by WO 291/246 etc) that there was no German Artillery fire on the British/Canadian beaches on 06June.


What part of WO 291/246 or any of the other AORG reports do you think mythologizes that? I've just gone through my copy and there are any number of references to "gunfire and mortar fire", "shelling and mortaring", and the like in the narrative extracts. The Notts Yeo did note "little or no observed artillery fire on to the beaches", but that was the observation of a single unit...and is more than a bit ambiguous. Did they mean they did not see much artillery fire landing on the beach or did they mean they did not believe the artillery fire that was landing - in whatever quantity - was observed fire? And, if the latter, how could they be sure?


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