PAW 600 report

[Yoozername]

Document drawn up on 09.13.1944 by the Org.Abt. IIIa on the results obtained during the presentation of two designs (Krupp, Rheinmetall) of the PAW 600 (8 cm anti-tank defense weapon) at the Unterlüss test center.

Note :
The '8 cm Panzerabwehr-Wurf-Kanone 8H63', the official name adopted from November 1944, had been envisaged as a standard anti-tank weapon within infantry anti-tank units. Until the end of the war and despite the fact that its development had not been completed, a total of 260 units would be built, the first being delivered to the troops in January 1945.

13.09.1944

Organizationsabteilung III to

Nr. 77 760/44 geh.

Subject :
Anti-tank defense weapon 600 (PAW 600)

In relation to :
Presentation of equipment and ammunition in Unterlüss on 08.09
notes
Attending among others :

Generalleutnant von John (representative of Gen.Lt. Schneider - Wa Prüf)
Generalmajor von Jung (Wa A - ballistics and ammunition)
Oberst Proff (Gen.b.Chef H Rüst)
Oberst Plass (Wa Prüf 1)
Oberst Übelacker (speaker)
Oberst Wöhlermann (orator)
Oberstlt. Haymann (Gen.d.Inf.b. Chef GenStdH)
Major Gerlach (AHA / In 2)
Hauptmann Stichter (GenStdH / Gen. Qu.)
Hauptmann Schulze (GenStdH / Org.Abt.)
Oberlt. Warnat (Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr.)


Purpose of the presentation :

The presentation of the still unfinished PAW 600 development has served to verify if the cannon already now complies with the claims to be used in the front or if it should wait for its completion.

It cannot be foreseen if its further development can and if it can when it could reach the desired claims (combat distance 1000 meters, piercing power 200 mm).


Weapon :

Two developments have been presented:

PAW 600 (Krupp development) with 2.4 meter long tube
PAW 600 (Rheinmetall development) with 3 meter long tube
The tube - caliber 8.14 cm - with muzzle brake and sliding bolt is integrated in the new standard mount. The aiming system is the heavy anti-tank gun sight and additional sight 38 (Aushilfsrichtmittel 38) .

Lateral firing range 80°
Maximum elevation 32° (Maximum firing distance with Spr.Gr. 6000 m)
Height of fire approximately 0.8 m
Weight in firing position approximately 600 Kg


In this way the equipment exceeds the maximum claimed weight of approximately 450 Kg = 3.7 cm Pak


Ammunition :

The claimed piercing power of 140 mm at 60° without exceeding the claimed maximum barrel weight can only be achieved by using shaped charge ammunition (HL-Ammunition) . Although the best performance with shaped charge ammunition is achieved by projectile flight without angular momentum (drallfrei)The problem of a stable flight without angular momentum of a projectile with a speed greater than the speed of sound has not been clarified up to now.

In order to "widen" the pressure/stroke diagram and, in the face of a reduction of the normal high pressure peak in the load zone of the tube, achieve a corresponding increase in the outlet pressure, the Krupp and Rheinmetall companies have found different solutions:

For this purpose, Krupp has invented the "oversized loading area", i.e. an expansion area integrated concentrically with the loading area and connected to it through a large number of holes (risk of contamination!)

The propellant charges in the form of circular cartridges are wrapped around the handle of the grenade and protected from moisture by a cover. Mechanical damage from loads is expected with this design.


The Rheinmetall design contains a normal load zone and works on the "high and low pressure" principle. The projectile consists of a nozzle base (Düsenboden) and a cased cartridge (Hülsenkartusche). Here the propellant charge is protected against contamination and mechanical damage. The remaining nozzle base after the shot supposes an additional steel requirement of 1 Kg per shot. The projectile and the nozzle base are joined by a semi-rigid connection (difficult to manufacture).
Krupp and Rheinmetall use the same projectile based on pressed steel or tube (a scarce product!). Other models are not possible.

Rheinmetall's ballistic solution has the advantage of consuming a much lower amount of gunpowder.

The development of high explosive grenades (Spr.Gr.)has not yet been finalized. Similarly, the use of normal 8 cm grenades has not yet been fully clarified.


In the course of test shots during the presentation the following results have been achieved with the 8cm PAW 600:

Rheinmetall :
Total dispersion at 500 meters: 0.5 x 1.1 m
Total dispersion at 800 meters: 1.5 x 1.5 m

Krupp :
Total dispersion at 500 meters: 0.6 x 2.5 m
The drilling capacities correspond to what was claimed (140 mm).

10.5 cm anti-tank launchers (Panzerabwehrwerfer) from the two companies were also presented and some shots were fired with them.

Equipment weight: 900 - 950 Kg (like the 5 cm Pak 38)
(the tube can be integrated on the 5 cm Pak 38 mount)

Drilling capacity: 200 mm at distances between 800 - 1000 meters
(piercing capacity could be increased up to 250 mm)

The development of the equipment has been completed, but not the development of the ammunition.

In a later meeting the advantages and disadvantages of the two designs were discussed and the development of the design of the Rheinmetall company was favored.

The Oberstlt. Haymann (Gen.d.Inf.) stressed the need to introduce the equipment as quickly as possible before the accelerated production of the light infantry gun begins. Infantry need a well-performing anti-tank weapon, not an infantry cannon rig that is less than ideal for anti-tank combat. The equipment must be presented as soon as possible to the Chef GenStdH and later to the Führer.

The representative of the Org.Abt. stated that the PAW 600 basically complies with the claims of the GenStdH and that in order to speed up its development and clarify important structural issues, a pre-series production should be called for.

For when the decision of the corresponding departments is available, it is proposed in common agreement with Gen.Qu. to carry out tests with the troops, the production of between 100 and 120 pieces of equipment and the limited production of between 15 and 20,000 shots.

The representative of the Gen,Insp.d.Pz.Tr. states that the weapon is not suitable to be incorporated into combat tanks.

Personal impression :

The equipment undoubtedly represents a significant advance towards an anti-tank gun for infantry in terms of weight, combat distance and perforation performance achieved and is fully suitable for its intended use.

The defects found during the presentation (strong oscillations of the tube after each shot due to the length of the tube and the heavy brake muzzle) will be mostly solved in the next three weeks, so that then the equipment could foreseeably be presented to the Führer.

The ammunition leaves an artificial impression and is not convincing. It has not been clarified whether, in order to reuse the cartridges in cases with the nozzle base, they must be previously treated by the troops or sent to ammunition stores near the front.

Because the mount of the PAW 600 is the standard mount also used by the le.IG 42, the production costs are limited only to the tube with the closing system and the ammunition. For this reason and with the aim of accelerating the completion of the development, it is considered possible and convenient to claim between 100 and 120 pieces of equipment with the corresponding ammunition.

Due to its high weight (such as the 5 cm Pak 38) the 10.5 cm PAW is not suitable for use in infantry regiments.

Annex of the Org.Abt. III to Nr. 77 760/44 geh. from 13.09.44



orig. German Document
https://www.panzer-elmito.org/panzertru ... 944_D.html

[Yoozername]

Comparison

paw600.jpg

[searay]

Here's a photo of one of the prototypes collected by the US Army and later sent to APG

PAW.jpg

[ThatZenoGuy]

I am curious about one of the claims made in this report.

"Krupp and Rheinmetall use the same projectile based on pressed steel or tube (a scarce product!). Other models are not possible."

I was under the impression that pressed steel and tubes are generally some of the easiest parts to make, which is why the Panzerfaust was so popular, as tubes could be made all over the place.

[David Hume]

I am curious about one of the claims made in this report.

"Krupp and Rheinmetall use the same projectile based on pressed steel or tube (a scarce product!). Other models are not possible."

I was under the impression that pressed steel and tubes are generally some of the easiest parts to make, which is why the Panzerfaust was so popular, as tubes could be made all over the place.

I guess this is an error of translation? I have read before that the main advantage of PAW 600 is extremely easy to produce, like the one for mortar.

[T. A. Gardner]

This is the Rheinmetall projectile.



It uses a 8.1cm mortar bomb held on a short shaft to a cut down 10.5 cm cartridge case with a steel plate welded to the front. This plate has holes drilled in it.

The way it works is the charge goes off and has to eject through the holes slowing the flow of the gas. This allows the mortar bomb to start moving up the barrel gaining speed as it goes while keeping the barrel pressure down meaning you can use a lighter and thinner barrel that's cheap to make. The barrel is smoothbore so you have an advantage there too.

After firing, the breech is opened and the cartridge is ejected and another round loaded.

The bomb is fin stabilized in flight like any other mortar bomb.

The advantages to this weapon are obvious. It's easier to manufacture, uses less material, uses already available components to make the round up, and in use is relatively lightweight meaning you don't really need motor transport to move it around.

Out to about 1000 meters it's accurate enough to take a tank out in no more than a few rounds. At 500 meters, one shot by a decent crew should do the job. Additionally, it can fire standard high explosive 8.1 cm mortar bombs against infantry and soft targets.

[ThatZenoGuy]

Ended up a developmental dead end due to ATGM's and higher performing smaller guns. Sad. ;(((

Technically lives on, because Hi-Lo is used with 40mm grenades and the like though.