Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
jopaerya
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by jopaerya » 24 Feb 2013 16:42

Thanks Oliver

For your quick reply . 8-)

Regards Jos

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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by jopaerya » 14 Mar 2013 19:46

Here a other model of the Bauart Winkel Luftschutzbunker in Gelsenkirchen ( Buer Scholven oil plant ) from Ebay .

Regards Jos
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jopaerya
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by jopaerya » 29 May 2014 08:16

Again two smaller Winkel Lüftzschutz towers on a Ebay picture .

Regards Jos
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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 29 May 2014 17:24

Nice photo :D
Mayby its Zossen?

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TUS
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by TUS » 30 May 2014 13:03

The exact same thought popped into my mind Andrzej!

Brgds Tønnes

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 30 May 2014 13:55

Hello Tønnes :milsmile:

In Zossen bunkers has 3-tone camouflage:
http://www.thirdreichruins.com/winkelturm12a.jpg

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Geoff Walden » 30 May 2014 14:16

I had the same thought as soon as I saw that ebay photo ... must be Zossen. There was a line of Winkeltürme behind (to the left in this view) the one in my photo from 2012 ... could have been this same tower in the period photo, or another one in that line of towers. There are (I believe) 19 Winkeltürme at Zossen, most blown up, but several still standing ... I did not visit every last one (no time that day).

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 30 May 2014 17:19

Geoff Walden wrote:I had the same thought as soon as I saw that ebay photo ... must be Zossen. There was a line of Winkeltürme behind (to the left in this view) the one in my photo from 2012 ... could have been this same tower in the period photo, or another one in that line of towers. There are (I believe) 19 Winkeltürme at Zossen, most blown up, but several still standing ... I did not visit every last one (no time that day).
Which one do You mean?
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Geoff Walden » 30 May 2014 19:00

Well, the one in your last photo is (I believe) the same one in the link you posted from my webpage, where there are also others shown.

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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by jopaerya » 24 Jun 2014 18:14

According to the Ebay photo caption it should be a Luftschutz bunker in Frankfurt .

Regards Jos
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wartourist
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by wartourist » 24 Jun 2014 19:12

Gents,

Anyone here who knows how many degrees below horizontal the 128 mm guns at the Zoo flak tower in Berlin could be lowered? Reason for my question is that several historians (i.e. Le Tissier) describe how the guns engaged ground targets during the Battle for Berlin. Initially, targets in the suburbs were engaged, but during the final battle even tanks on the Molkte Bridge, just some 2.8 km away allegedly were destroyed by the heavy Zoo guns.

In order to find the distance "C", and thus the minimum range of fire we need to know the angle "b". Any bids on that?

Dan
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wartourist
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by wartourist » 01 Jul 2014 16:58

Hmm, just got the book "The heavy Flak guns" by Werner Müller from the library. It appears that the Flakzwilling 40 in standard mounting could muster a negative elevation of -3 degres. Angle b in the example is thus 87 degrees. If that was the case in the Zoo Tower mounting too, the gun would be able to hit targets as close as 2000 meters and Molkte bridge was thus well within range.

I never would have thought that, but you learn ever day I guess ;-)

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Grzesio
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Grzesio » 01 Jul 2014 17:20

Hmmm - I've just checked a couple of books and the lowest 12,8 cm Flakzwilling 40 elevation is usually given as 0 degrees.
Anyway, one also has to remember, that the gun was capable of indirect fire only, as it had no provision for optical sight.

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Eax-E
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Eax-E » 01 Jul 2014 18:15

Hello,

After german wartime technical documents -3° is correct. :wink:
A different document gives the Z.F.20 E as optical sight for direct fire but I have never seen it on a 12,8 so far. :|

Best regards

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Flakturm und Luftschutz bunkers

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 01 Jul 2014 19:06

I think that behind this concept could be such photo(s) with destroyed Soviet tank nearby Flak tower. First photo shows why it could be done.
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