Neu

[P. Heijkoop]

Arthur,

Interesting. Is the cellar for the 119 under the gaslock like the 117 or located
elsewhere ?

Peter

[AvB]

Arthur,

Interesting. Is the cellar for the 119 under the gaslock like the 117 or located
elsewhere ?

Peter

Under the gaslock:

[P. Heijkoop]

Hi Arthur,

Thanks !

Peter

[jopaerya]

Hello

Her some more indications of the use of the therm Neu on the 118 at Hoek van Holland
( de Beer ) and the 118 at La Coubre ( Gironde ) .

Regards Jos

[P. Heijkoop]

Hi,

I seem to remember the one at La Coubre is the 118b-version (with cellar)

cheers,

Peter

[jopaerya]

Yes you are right Peter at Gi 08 has a cellar , but that does not fit with the 118 in Hoek van Holland if we
must believe that all the 118 in Holland are the same as the one at Rijksdorp ( Duitse bunkers in Nederland ) .

Regards Jos

[AvB]

And what about the 504 neu in that list?

[jopaerya]

Hello Arthur

Yes , you are right about the 504 neu . Maybe we are seaching for big differences .
The main differences I found in the Westwall and Atlantikwall versions are the cut-off
corner for the gaslock door to close when a airblast take place just outside the bunker
and the antenna nisches are typical for the Atlantikwall bunkers .

But as allways there are exception on the rule .

Regards Jos

[M19 MADMAL]

cut-off corner for the gaslock door to close when a airblast take place just outside the bunker

I never knew that I presumed the corner was cut-off for making access easier.

You live and learn

Regards,
Malcolm

[TommySoelbergDK]

Hi
Can I asume that any bunker named "neu", is "just" an upgraded version of the original Westwall type?
Could this enigma not be solved, by makingf small drawings of the 117's and 118's, in 1:200, and post them here?
Usualy a and b, "just" mean with or without Nahkampfsraum.
If you build bunkers where the groundwater is high, I guess you could move the hiezraum and generatorraum "upstairs".

The 118 neu, could be ANY 118, with the Heizraum and Agr.raum added. In the basement or not.
The 117a neu, could also be ANY 117 with a boilerroom, instead of Wt80 or elecricheaters.
Westwall nests had their own powergenerator, to give them the electricety they needed.
Since the Atlantic Wall was build differently, they needed their own heat and powersource.
A central heating system is better then a handfull of Wt80's.
Commandbunkers and hospitals where important bunkers, so I guess they needed to be maned all the time.
OR at least ready for battle, in terms of heat and power.

The 117a in Hanstholm, has a small heatingroom in the basement, under the left airlock. No turret, just SR9/10.
Not that many turrets for 117's were ever made so they ran out I guess. Planed for Westwall only?
The 118b in Hanstholm, has its Heating, Air and Powersupply in the basement.
Plus an extra room next to the generator, for extra fuel. The doorway has been blocked by a 50 cm high wall at its base.
I guess if the fuel should leak, it could not spread. There is also a HES 1,2 in that very small room.

Make 1:200 drawings of the 117's and 118's AND put only original info on the jpg.
WHEN was it built, WHERE was it built...
Find original german papers, such as Baufortschrittsmeldung or others like it.
After 1942, their function must have been taken over by the 600-series.

Found this link to a R.117c:
http://bunkersite.com/blog/?p=166
2HQ bunker 117c of Stützpunkt Simon near Grand Millebruggh." (Photo: Arthur van Beveren)
It looks rather BIG.
Regards
TS

[AvB]

Although I've designated is as 117c I've never seen it on original documents.
a/b/c/d doesn't seem to count for all 100 series bunkers..

Bunker looks big but was shot with ultra wide lens.

[RuPo]

some differents in the Baukastesystem see;
http://home.tiscali.nl/bunkerarchief/di ... ll_eng.htm
(middle of the page, with thanks to 20P7).
g,Ruud

[20P7]

Hello Thommy, Arthur and Ruud,

the bunkers within Gef Std. Grand Mille Brugge are 1 x R 119b and 1 x R 117b. I have been there and was able to enter and identify in 2001.

Sorry, but those are no R 117c.

Happy Easter!

Daniel

[AvB]

The b versions of these Regelbauten don't have a Nahkampfraum.
So I'm for 117a and 119a, where the 117a has a periscope instead of het Kleinstglocke.

[TommySoelbergDK]

So no 117c, thank God for that.
It's bad enough with 118-ww-a-b-c...

KleinstGlocke 90P9:
There were only 81 built into the Westwall. (See p.278 Bettinger & Büren, Bd.2)
I just think they installed a periskope instead, when they ran out. (117 and 502's)
-
"Die B1-Kleinstglocken 90P9 und 23P8 sind in den Regelbauten über 100 und in B-Werken eingebaut.
Sie besitzen eine seitliche Auswölbung zur Überdeckung der Einstiegnische.
Der Mangel an Kleinstglocken führte jedoch dazu, dass bei den meisten Regelbauten über 100 die Varianten ohne Kleinstglocken gewählt werden mussten, oder aber die Anlagen sogar mit offenem Schacht ohne Glocke liegenblieben.
Für 1940 waren 600 Kleinstglocken 90P9 angekündigt, ein Vielfaches der in den 3 Baujahren davor verfügbaren Zahl."
-
Doesn't "angekündigt" meen they were canceled?

I don't think they changed the type number, just to point out the missing turret.
That doesn't sound german, at all.
A periskope might not give you the best fieldview, but it was safer.

Regards
TS