Bunker optics

Rotkehlchen · Post by **Rotkehlchen** » 02 Oct 2006 21:05

Well here some loose parts then...

P. Heijkoop · Post by **P. Heijkoop** » 02 Oct 2006 21:08

still nice though!

Peter

jbb20p7 · Post by **jbb20p7** » 04 Oct 2006 09:01

Hello,

A picture take in website, showing SR9 on a strange support

It's not the usual support

Bye

Jibi

grappener · Post by **grappener** » 04 Oct 2006 13:17

Thank god someone started this topic off!

I am currently doing a research project into optics used by the german forces, especially bunker types.

two major questions, does anyone have any information/ pictures of the type of optic that went into the M19 5cm Granatewerfer assembly??? Practically no informations seems to exist on this so would be very grateful for any help here.

Also does anyone know what a "Peilapparat Mit Zahlwerk" is? It looks like a base unit for measuring direction of targets from observation bunkers but I'm not sure. I have seen photos of a Peilapparat mounted with a Scherenfernrohr ontop, does anyone have any further info??

cheers

Grappener

jbb20p7 · Post by **jbb20p7** » 04 Oct 2006 13:32

Hello Grappener,

I think there is an optic for M19 in Viervile museum near Omaha beach in Normandy.
I will scan this pics as soon as possible

Bye

Jibi

M19 MADMAL · Post by **M19 MADMAL** » 04 Oct 2006 16:03

Hello Grappener,

I think we have met at the M19 at Corbiere yes?
There is a M19 periscope in a private collection on Jersey
I cant get any photos but if you are in Jersey I can point you in the right direction

Malcolm

jbb20p7 · Post by **jbb20p7** » 05 Oct 2006 11:57

Hello Grappener,

This pics show the optics of M19 (I think ?!

) at Vierville museum

Bye

Jibi

grappener · Post by **grappener** » 05 Oct 2006 13:04

Thanks very much for that jbb20p7, so that is what it looks like! Thanks very much for taking the time out to do that for me, anyone got any idea what it's official designation is?, would guess it would begin "Pz......... somthing or other!!"

Mal,
Yup that's me and I am on the rock, still working on getting the review article together, not an easy subject to write on and have had to can a lot of what I initally wanted to write about, so instead going for a "selected tour" of some of the optics deployed in the island rather than a "definitive list" as I have found that it is just impossible to catalogue all the optics that could have been used.

Hopefully I'll have it done in time for the new year.......I may have to pop down to Corbiere to see you again! In the meantime, take a look at an experiment I did with a 10.5cm Z.F. using a torch directed through the optic illumination port, hopefully I might be able to use this in the review article to highlight how the actual reticules of optics can be greatly enhanced in conditions of low light using the familiar bulb and slide arrangement that slides onto most optics.

Also, tell Kevin that the Periscope from Noirmont I think is the same type of one that is on display in the Occupation Mueseum in Guernsey that was recovered from Jerbourg Point, I may be wrong but it could be the same model....they only photo I have is very blurry of it, there was an MAA at jerborg I think wasn't there???

Hope anyone else can help with any other pictures and general info on bunker optics, there is precious little info around, and at present this thread looks to become about the best resource there is, so keep adding guys!

cheers

Grappener

AvB · Post by **AvB** » 05 Oct 2006 16:40

grappener wrote:Thanks very much for that jbb20p7, so that is what it looks like! Thanks very much for taking the time out to do that for me, anyone got any idea what it's official designation is?, would guess it would begin "Pz......... somthing or other!!"

The one in the original pics must be a Zeis Panzer-Beobachtungsrohr 4a.
At least, in their archive they say so.

http://www.archive.zeiss.de/zeig.FAU?si ... ernrohr+4a

De newer pic must be a Busch optic. Don't know anything about it.

Rotkehlchen · Post by **Rotkehlchen** » 10 Oct 2006 11:56

AvB,

The link does not seem to work

lcw · Post by **lcw** » 29 Jan 2007 13:13

Hallo,

A follow up on the Zeiss-optics (Winkelfernröhre) for cupolas and plates.

Not complete, but we have found the major part of a PBWF.3.
The round top must fitt the armoured part as presented
by Erik E earlier in this topic.

A fine new piece in the collection of Bunkerbehoud.

Lenco,

Valtoro · Post by **Valtoro** » 29 Jan 2007 18:05

Interesting post!
Can anyone identify this periscope?
From a SK personnel bunker built around 1942.

/valtoro.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 29 Jan 2007 21:06

Also does anyone know what a "Peilapparat Mit Zahlwerk" is? It looks like a base unit for measuring direction of targets from observation bunkers but I'm not sure

You`re as close as it gets

This was a rather simple device, but yet the primary equipment of the coastal artillery, not just for directions, but also for following the target. The most common type in Army coastal batteries (atleast in Norway) was a ww1 type Scherenfernrohr 14Z. On the army equipment (HKB), it was mounted on a "peilapparate" divided in 6600 marks/lines.

The navy used a more modern "twin binocular" e.g B.Z.C/2 with 8-10x magnifying. On the shorebased Navy equipment (MKB), the peilapparate was divided in 360 degrees, and each degree again divided in 16.....

On the attached photos, you see the Navy version. The counter shows direction 149 12/16 degrees. If you now follow the target in the binoculars (which should be on top) by turning the handle, the peilapparate will allways tell you the actual direction!

On heavier naval batteries they used what was called a "Peilsäule" where corrections could be added direcly on the apparatus, and all datas were sent by electrical signals directly to the fire controlpost.

EE

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 29 Jan 2007 21:24

Whatever it`s worth or useful for anyone, here are a listing of optics dated 1.7.1943

EE

grappener · Post by **grappener** » 29 Jan 2007 23:45

Thats great Erik!

Thanks very much for that information, it has been very hard to find out anything about that!

I think I saw somewhere on the ARN website that you had some of the Peilapperats there.

There is an example of the Langesaule C38 ( I think??) at Noirmont in Jersey, and somewhere else on this board is postings by Kevin and Malcolm wanting to find out more information about it.

For their benefit do you have any further info on the Langesaule that could help them?

What do people know about the SR-10 periscope? I found out lots about the SR-9. During research I've even come across and additional "half meter" length of tubing to increase the reach of the periscope if needed (and this doesn't feature on the original technical drawings kindly provided to me by AvB and Jos Vogel).

What do you guys know about the SR-9's and SR10's? Nice equipment!

Also does anyone have any info on 10 x80's, 12x60's, Runblickfernrohr M32, PakK 4.7cm, P.Z.1's etc pour it all out guys, this thread is rapidly becoming a great resource on the internet for optics!

cheers

Grappener

Axis History Forum

Bunker optics

great topic!!