Wrong alocation of Beute designations

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 24 Oct 2006 12:52

So far, I only found more conflicting data! :(

French site claims 7,5cm GebK 285(j) to be Schneider gun and 7,5cm GebK 258(j) as Skoda M.28. However, there is also GebK 285(i) - Skoda M28 mountain guns captured by Italians in Yugoslavia, later to be seiyed by Germans!

New lists from Jos clearly marks GebK 285(j) as Skoda M.28 guns.

I know TWO Skoda M.28 GebK versions existed in Yugoslav armament, M.28 and M.28A, so two codes are maybe in order (but... :roll: ). However, where we lost Schneider piece? :?

Also, if 10,5cm K 321 is Skoda M.15/26, and K 338(j) is Schneider L13, what the #@$% is 10,5cm FK 336(j) ?! 8O (some Krupp 105mm long gun from WWI Austro-Hungarian armament? :roll: )

( Oh-oh, I'm in trouble... :( )

Regards, Edge

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 24 Oct 2006 21:32

what the #@$% is 10,5cm FK 336(j) ?!


Just found a reference to a "10,5cm K336(i) [ Ex - C105/40 ]
I would be surprised if this is not the same gun as your 10,5cm FK 336(j)

Erik

User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 24 Oct 2006 21:45

So, another overlapping of Yugoslav/Italian WWI-era artillery (ex-kük Heer armament). :?

Not surprised - actually relieved. Another piece of artillery identified on my list. :)

Thanks, Erik! :D

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 24 Oct 2006 22:05

French site claims 7,5cm GebK 285(j) to be Schneider gun and 7,5cm GebK 258(j) as Skoda M.28. However, there is also GebK 285(i) - Skoda M28 mountain guns captured by Italians in Yugoslavia, later to be seiyed by Germans!

New lists from Jos clearly marks GebK 285(j) as Skoda M.28 guns.


I`m quite sure the French page mixed up the numbers 258 & 285.....
That would leave the GebK 285(j) as Skoda M28 guns, and the GebK 258(j) as the Scheider gun???

Anyway, here is a ammunition sheet for GebK 285(j) with "Skoda M28" written all over the place :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 24 Oct 2006 23:07

Thanks a lot, Erik! :D

Do you have something else of Yugoslav equipment? :(
(of course, for the sake of this topic, some of disputed items are preferred)

Regards, Edge

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 25 Oct 2006 21:28

Do you have something else of Yugoslav equipment?


Think I got most of the sheets belonging to the overview I posted a few days ago.
Apart from that just "bits and ieces" spread around in various other documents.

EE

EPOCH3
Financial supporter
Posts: 479
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 22:22
Location: RI USA

Post by EPOCH3 » 04 Nov 2006 01:45


User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 04 Nov 2006 20:07

Hi, EPOCH! :)

I'm glad you are in business again.

First two of your pictures show Schneider Mle 1919 - no doubt about this.
Problem is - I really have no source at all about this type in Yugoslav armament.
From the list Erik posted, Germans didn't capture these guns in Yugoslavia in 1941 - undoubtedly not in signifacant number to alocate them beute number right from the start.
(Yes, this "брдских топова" is very confusing - this is Yugoslav designation, although grammaticaly incorrect :? )

Also, most suspicious is the lack of beute number for the same guns with "(g)" designation, because Greece definitely had these mountain guns.

Next (third) of your picture is Skoda M28 - standard mountain gun of Yugoslav Army. From previous posts it was cartain that GebK 285(j) IS its correct number. Now we can be 110% sure for that.

Regards from exhausted, heavily occupied (from "friendly forces") "Son of a Mnt. Gun"
Last edited by The Edge on 06 Nov 2006 14:12, edited 1 time in total.

EPOCH3
Financial supporter
Posts: 479
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 22:22
Location: RI USA

C105/40

Post by EPOCH3 » 04 Nov 2006 22:34

For what it is worth gentlemen -
10,5cm K336(i) [ is C105/40 "M42"

Kind Regards

Greg

User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Re: C105/40

Post by The Edge » 06 Nov 2006 09:44

EPOCH3 wrote:For what it is worth gentlemen -
10,5cm K336(i) is C105/40 "M42"
Kind Regards
Greg


Yes, Greg, I found that at Thursday (Adolpheit told me in e-mail), but I was slightly "disabled" in that period to forward the info immediatly.

Full name is "Cannone da 105/40 mod. 43" (42?). Only about dozen were made by OTO Melara factory - they were seized by German Army after 8 September 1943.

So, K336(i) is pure Italian gun - its "(j)" designation at "some sites" is drastic mistake. :wink:

Btw, it will be most helpful if you can find beute-lists for:


jopaerya wrote:I have for the Greek guns the numbers

7,5 cm F.K. 267 (g) -- 6.0 to 9.0 k.m.
10.5 cm l.F.H. 318 (g) -- 9.8 k.m.
10.5 cm K. 340 (g) -- 15.5 k.m.

Regards Jos


... plus 7,5cm Geb K 258(j) - to finally see what is this "stinker". :?

Regards, Edge / Antic

EPOCH3
Financial supporter
Posts: 479
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 22:22
Location: RI USA

Post by EPOCH3 » 06 Nov 2006 13:51

Great data Sir! - I certainly have some data on the 7,5cm Geb K 258(j) "stinker" but I will have to check on the (g) pieces for you this evening - my main area of interest is large calibre KuK and German guns but I will see what I have for you.
regards

User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 06 Nov 2006 14:00

For me and rest of the "band", I hope. :wink:

(So we could solve this problem in more "relaxed" way:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 17868
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 06 Nov 2006 16:37

Hello All

There were only 3 guns 10,5 cm K. 336 (i) ( 105/40 ) in German service in 1944 .
The 10,5 cm K. 340 (g) is also called the 105 m.m. Mod. 1927 .
Not much but all little thinks helps .

Regards Jos

User avatar
The Edge
Member
Posts: 4167
Joined: 28 Nov 2005 10:18
Location: Serbia

Post by The Edge » 06 Nov 2006 17:09

jopaerya wrote:Hello All
There were only 3 guns 10,5 cm K. 336 (i) ( 105/40 ) in German service in 1944 .
The 10,5 cm K. 340 (g) is also called the 105 m.m. Mod. 1927 .
Not much but all little thinks helps .
Regards Jos


Quite contrary, it heps a lot. I was affraid that K340(g) might turn to be yet another designation for Schneider L13S.

In this case, my theory would have serious flaw, because I assumed that Greek L13S are put into K338(j) label. If K340(g) is Interwar (1927) model, obviously different than WWI-era Yugoslav (and Greek) L13S guns, specific beute number is mandatory.

Cheers, Edge

PS - Info from Adolpheit: only 8 pcs of K336(i) used by Germans. These were actually test-series production guns (after few prototypes) so its not surprising that only 3 is still "fit for duty" in 1944.

EPOCH3
Financial supporter
Posts: 479
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 22:22
Location: RI USA

D 50 equipments (Greek)

Post by EPOCH3 » 07 Nov 2006 00:57

As request gentlemen -
7,5 cm F.K. 267 (g) -- 6.0 to 9.0 k.m. (note range = 6.0 k.m to 8.0 k.m.)
10.5 cm l.F.H. 318 (g) -- 9.8 k.m. (confirmed 9.8 k.m.)
10.5 cm K. 340 (g) -- 15.5 k.m. (confirmed 15.5 k.m.)

http://members.cox.net/oddessa_ss/267_G.JPG
http://members.cox.net/oddessa_ss/318_G.JPG
http://members.cox.net/oddessa_ss/340_g.JPG

hope these provide the clues you need -
:) Regards
Greg[/img]

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”