Captured Russian 45mm Pak

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Erik E
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Captured Russian 45mm Pak

Post by Erik E » 22 Nov 2002 19:40

I have seen several examples of this gun mounted on the regular 3,7 Cm Pak carriage. Anyone got any numbers of how many actually got converted?
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Robert Hurst
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Captured Russian 45 mm Pak

Post by Robert Hurst » 23 Nov 2002 12:14

Hi Erik

Are you sure that this is a 3.7 cm Pak 35/36 carriage. The reason why I ask this is because the Germans captured two different models of this weapon.

The original 4.5 cm Model 1932 had wire spoked wheels, whereas the Model 1937 had conventional wheels similar to the ones in the photo.

Regards

Bob
Last edited by Robert Hurst on 25 Nov 2002 15:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 23 Nov 2002 15:46

Well I`m not sure, but this is what the museum guide told us........

EE

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Robert Hurst
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Captured Russian 45 mm Pak

Post by Robert Hurst » 25 Nov 2002 15:41

Hi Erik

In my previous reply, I stated that the 4.5 cm Model 1937 had a similar wheel arrangement to the gun in the photo, unfortunately that was wrong. This weapon had the same spoked wheels as the Model 1932.

The only version of this weapon to feature a wheel arrangement similar to the gun in the photo was the 4.5 cm Model 1942, and as far as I know, this weapon was not used by the Germans, during the war.

Are you sure it isn't a Pak 35/36 anti-tank gun that has been misidentified by the museum guide.

Regards

Bob

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 25 Nov 2002 15:58

Well, he had a very detailed story to tell about these pak`s. They had a lot of them "on stock" but only 2 restored.........

I am 100% sure that he said "The russian 45mm was mounted on German 37 pak carriages" but he could ofcourse be wrong..........

Since you seem to know much about artillery, I guess I`ll go for your story, but this rises another question.

How did these guns end up in Norway? (maybe traded after the war?)

EE

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JTV
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Re: Captured Russian 45 mm Pak

Post by JTV » 29 Nov 2002 09:16

Robert Hurst wrote:Hi Erik

In my previous reply, I stated that the 4.5 cm Model 1937 had a similar wheel arrangement to the gun in the photo, unfortunately that was wrong. This weapon had the same spoked wheels as the Model 1932.

The only version of this weapon to feature a wheel arrangement similar to the gun in the photo was the 4.5 cm Model 1942, and as far as I know, this weapon was not used by the Germans, during the war.

Are you sure it isn't a Pak 35/36 anti-tank gun that has been misidentified by the museum guide.

Regards

Bob


Few things:

Soviet 45-mm at-gun model 1932 had originally wooden wheels, while later versions (M1937, M1938, M1938-41) had typical spoked wheels.

Are the tires in that gun original? German 3.7 cm Pak 35/36 is looks very much like Soviet 45-mm at-guns indeed from that angle. But I did notice one more interesting thing from that picture: The tire pattern of that guns tires definetely looks like Soviet one.

These two pages in my website have pics of German 3.7 cm mm Pak and some Soviet 45-mm at-guns also showing their tires well enough to notice differences:

http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/AT_GUNS1.htm
http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/AT_GUNS2.htm

Maybe the gun could be Soviet 45-mm L/46 barreled at-gun (M1932, M1937, M1938 or M1938-41) that was for some reason equipped with tires usually used in Soviet M/1942 at-gun? This mix could have been created when the original gun was repaired or it could be somekind mixed-production version made while transfering production from one at-gun type to another.

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Jay Felsberg
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4.5cm Pak

Post by Jay Felsberg » 14 Oct 2003 05:44

The original 4.5cm Russian AT gun was nothing but a scale-up of their 3.7cm Pak, which was a copy of the German Pak 35/36...they will look very similar

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Dan Mouritzsen
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Post by Dan Mouritzsen » 14 Oct 2003 09:11

Hi all

It is a 4.5 cm Pushka obr. 1938g or in German vocabulary 4.5 cm. PAK 184/6 (r).

If you look at the end of the barrel you can see an enlargement that is not on the German 3,7 cm PAK cannons. Furthermore the German barrel is also smoother in its overall appearance. Take a look at the German 3,7 cm. PAK at the previous mentioned link at:

http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/37PstK37_1.jpg

The Germans captured a lot of those guns and in Denmark alone there are registered more than 127 copies in German sources in April 1945. Some of those were mated to surplus German carriages if their own original carriage were defect or destroyed. That was a lot easier that repairing them.

Regards

Dan Mouritzsen

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 14 Oct 2003 21:22

Dan,

Ain´t the 184/6 (r) an ex-tank gun?

Regards, Juha

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Dan Mouritzsen
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Post by Dan Mouritzsen » 15 Oct 2003 09:31

Hi

I think that i can remember something about that the 4,5 cm. L/46 was the main gun for at least the T-70 tank but i am not 100 % sure. I will have to look it up in my books :)

Regards

Dan Mouritzsen

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