french railway gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
AIGSPB
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Re: french railway gun

Post by AIGSPB » 26 Jul 2011 18:43

Manuferey wrote:It does indeed.

In addition, the same picture also appeared on ebay.de a year ago along with another picture showing the whole gun. The caption mentioned "52 cm RUSSLAND 1941".

Only one gun remained in 1940 in the French inventory. It was used by the Germans in the siege of Leningrad and blew up on January 5, 1942 due to a defective shell. So the picture would indeed have been taken at the end of 1941.

Image

Emmanuel
Where the 53cm gun was being operated? I know the true story of demolition of an unknown heavy German "mortar" (probably railway) close to Strelna in Dec. 1941 by rockets of a single Soviet fighter I-16, piloted by Matzievich.

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AVV
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Re: french railway gun

Post by AVV » 26 Jul 2011 18:51

Hello!
AIGSPB wrote:I know the true story of demolition of an unknown heavy German "mortar" (probably railway) close to Strelna in Dec. 1941 by rockets of a single Soviet fighter I-16, piloted by Matzievich.
Any details? The rockets were RS-82, if I've got it right?

Best regards, Aleks

AIGSPB
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Re: french railway gun

Post by AIGSPB » 26 Jul 2011 19:07

The type of rockets is unknown to me, but these fighters (I-16) were equipped with 6 rockets each. The rockets were useful against air and surface targets, f.e. the same pilot shot down German bomber at night by these rockets.
The story is here (in Russian): http://airaces.narod.ru/all10/matsiev2.htm
Shortly - the pilot was one of the best and he was the leader of a squad in a regiment of night fighters. He hunted the mortar during long time, but without any success. Finally once he approached the position with fighter's engine switched off, so the german AA batteries were unable to hear him. He noticed the splash of firing gun, and attacked the place. He saw the huge explosion, but were not sure whether he was successful in his attack. Since that night the mortar didn't fire anymore, so this let him count the successful hit. Might it be mentioned 52cm French antiques - I don't know, but it looks like, 'cause the Germans didn't have many heavy guns at Leningrad in Dec. 1941. Here is the map of Strelna, where the fighter attacked a mortar:
O-35-12_O-36-1.jpg
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AVV
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Re: french railway gun

Post by AVV » 26 Jul 2011 19:15

Thanks! :D

Best regards, Aleks

jopaerya
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Re: french railway gun

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2011 11:07

Hello

According to the book "Eisenbahnartillerie" the 52 cm H (E) 871 (f) was placed between Kolpino and Krasny Bor
that is a long way from the place you have mentioned . The pilots are talking about december 1941 and the
incident was on 05-01-1942 . Also the barrel is blown to pieces , that could only happen when a rocket + round
was exploded inside the barrel ??

Regards Jos

AIGSPB
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Re: french railway gun

Post by AIGSPB » 29 Jul 2011 22:33

jopaerya wrote:Hello

According to the book "Eisenbahnartillerie" the 52 cm H (E) 871 (f) was placed between Kolpino and Krasny Bor
that is a long way from the place you have mentioned . The pilots are talking about december 1941 and the
incident was on 05-01-1942 . Also the barrel is blown to pieces , that could only happen when a rocket + round
was exploded inside the barrel ??

Regards Jos
The barrel could be slightly damaged by rockets, so visually it looked unaffected, and during next opening fire the barrel could have been demolished. or not?

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Manuferey
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Manuferey » 30 Jul 2011 00:11

Due to the large thickness of the barrel, I don't think that the blast from a rocket having exploded somewhere next to the barrel but not directly on it, would have created external cracks that would have weakened the barrel.

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Sturm78 » 06 Aug 2011 22:45

Hi all,

Two images from Ebay:

Image 1: I think 400mm St. Chamond Mle 1915-1916
Image 2: I think 320mm Mle 1870-84

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Manuferey
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Manuferey » 06 Aug 2011 23:36

Hi Sturm78,

I agree with you: the barrels match your IDs.

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Sturm78 » 09 Aug 2011 10:32

Hi all,

I think 370mm Mle 1875-79. A rare combination: a very old barrel on a much more modern carriage. 8O
Why waste the carriage with this old barrel?

Image from Ebay
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Manuferey
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Manuferey » 09 Aug 2011 17:00

Sturm78 wrote:Why waste the carriage with this old barrel?
Sturm78
Most probably because it was much easier to build a new carriage than a new 370 mm barrel. :idea: Even an "old" model gun would still be able to send a huge 370 mm shell filled with destructive power several kilometers away: for the target at the receiving end, I don't think it mattered much how "old" the firing gun was. 8O

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Sturm78 » 09 Aug 2011 17:51

Emmanuel wrote
Most probably because it was much easier to build a new carriage than a new 370 mm barrel.

This carriage was developed for the 340mm Mle1912. I think that it would have been more logical to manufacture some more barrel of the 340mm Mle1912, which had a much better performances.

Regards Sturm78

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Manuferey
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Manuferey » 09 Aug 2011 18:52

I assume that the French Army wanted to press as many heavy guns into service as fast as possible. I don't know the leadtime to manufacture barrels but due the amount of high quality steel (always in short supply) required, the complexity of steel pouring and cooling, the lengthy forming process of the barrel and liner installation, the duration of the machining, etc. it had to be several months long. :idea:
Assembly time of the carriage would have been much faster.

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Sturm78 » 10 Sep 2011 09:39

Hi all,

Two images from Ebay:

Image 1: 52cm H (E) 871 (f)
Image 2: ?? It is almost impossible to identify

Sturm78
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Manuferey
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Re: french railway gun

Post by Manuferey » 10 Sep 2011 16:16

Image 1: 52cm H (E) 871 (f) - I agree
Image 2: at least, it looks to me like the carriage is the "affût à glissement de 320 mm Mle 1870-81". Otherwise, I cannot recognize the exact type. The only thing we can say is that it is not a "274 mm à glissement Mle 1917".

Emmanuel

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