french railway gun

[Manuferey]

Here are several pictures (from LIFE magazine?) on a Facebook WW 2 website of a French railway gun captured in Frankfurt in 1945. I think it is a 305 mm Mle 1906 ou Mle 1906-10 "sur affût à glissement Schneider". I hope that Guy François can tell us.

The first picture is quite known:



But the site shows more pictures of this gun:











There is also a picture of "Happy" ("Joyeux" for the French), one of Walt Disney's Seven Dwarves, in the Facebook album. But it belonged to a different French railway gun, a 320 mm Mle 1917, which had a shorter barrel and a reinforced muzzle compared to the 305 mm gun. I'm not sure why this picture appears here. Was "Happy" also recaptured in Francfurt in 1945?



Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Very nice picture's Emmanuel

[ALVF]

Hello,

I think that the first photographs show 305 mm modèle 1906-10 sur affût à glissement Schneider guns, building finished in 1919 and used in 1939-1940 by ALVF but not used by germans in 1940-1945 (stocked with many guns in Ruhr aera).
The last photograph show the 320 mm modèle 1917 "Joyeux", affût-truck n°3058, gun 305 mm modèle 1893-96, immatriculated R 1902 n° 7, rebored to 320 mm, immatriculated R 1918 n° 1.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[schwarzermai]

hello - any idea?



thanks uwe

[EPOCH3]

Believe it is a 16,4cm 93/96 M Kanone (E) 453 (f)

[Manuferey]

Hello,

I think that the first photographs show 305 mm modèle 1906-10 sur affût à glissement Schneider guns, building finished in 1919 and used in 1939-1940 by ALVF but not used by germans in 1940-1945 (stocked with many guns in Ruhr aera).
The last photograph show the 320 mm modèle 1917 "Joyeux", affût-truck n°3058, gun 305 mm modèle 1893-96, immatriculated R 1902 n° 7, rebored to 320 mm, immatriculated R 1918 n° 1.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

Merci Guy.

Emmanuel

[schwarzermai]

Hello

1st - thanks Greg

2nd - any idea about these?

thanks uwe

[ALVF]

Hello,

This photograph is taken in Vierzon railway station (the bridge is very characteristic) after june 1940 (july to september is the more probable). In summer and autumn 1940, many ALVF and other guns were on way to Germany. On 25th june 1940, these guns were retreated in southern France, in Neuvy-Pailloux ("Centre d'Organisation de l'ALVF") and in works (Schneider works in Creusot, Arsenal de Tarbes, etc...).
All these guns were to be delivered to Germany after the "Armistice".
On the photograph, we see:
-mortiers de 270 modèle 1889 de côte (mortars) refurbished to be used on the Front in last 1940 or 1941.
-one "affût à glissement Schneider" without tube and refurbished, it is a 320 mm modèle 70-30 mount or more probably a 340 mm modèle 1881 or modèle 1884 gun. These 340 mm guns were in Tarbes and Le Creusot and work made to be rebored in 370 mm modèle 1915 for mounting on sliding mounts. The mounts were refurbihed but in june 1940 any complete rebored gun mounted in "affût à glissement" was finished.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[schwarzermai]

Hello Guy, thanks so much!! Uwe

[MLW]

I am reading about WWI French railway artillery and am wondering why the calibre of some guns were designated in cm - such as the Canon de 19cm modèle 1870-93 sur affût-truck tous azimuts - and others in mm - such as the 240mm modèle 1884 et 1917 sur affût-truck tous azimuts Batignolles. Does any know why? Is it the source of the gun barrel; perhaps a naval gun versus a fortress or coastal defense gun?

Regards,
Marc

[ALVF]

Hello,

In the last years of 19th century, french naval and army guns were so denominated:

-the tubes made with cast iron body and inner tube in steel were denominated in centimeters: 32 cm modèle 1870-84, 19 cm modèle 1870-93, etc...

-the tubes made all in steel were denominated in millimeters: 305 mm modèle 1893-96, 340 mm modèle 1912, 194 mm modèle 1902, etc...

But after the Great War, in 1920-1930 years, all models were denominated in millimeters and with shortened year denomination for all the guns.
So, for ALVF guns:
- former 32 cm modèle 1870-84 are denominated 320 mm modèle 70-84.
- former 19 cm modèle 1870-93 are denominated 194 mm modèle 70-93.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[MLW]

Bonjour Guy,

Thank you for the detailed answer. It is the small details of history that sometimes are the most difficult to determine. Your knowledge is astounding.

Regards,
Marc

[MLW]

I am curious about the relationship between the ALGP and ALVF in WWI. The origins of the ALVF appear murky to me, because in 1914 and early 1915, not all railways guns were assigned to the ALVF. Was the ALVF part of the ALGP or was it a separate branch of artillery? Or am I confusing, type of heavy artillery - ground mounted ALGP versus rail mounted ALVF - with organizational structure of the French artillery?

I appreciate any insight anyone has.

Regards,
Marc

[ALVF]

Hello,

ALVF is a branch of ALGP because some ALGP guns were not ALVF guns (mortiers de 370 Filloux et 293 "Danois", 270 modèle 1889 coast mortars, etc...).

In 1918, they were 9 ALGP regiments, 5 were armed with ALVF guns:
-70e RALGP: service regiment: railway building, locomotives, etc...
-71e RALGP: 240 guns: 240 TR modèle 1903 and 240 modèle 1884 on 1916 mount.
-72e RALGP: 220 L modèle 1917: new regiment in formation, only one Group on the front at 11 november 1918.
-73e RALGP: heavy mortars regiment: 370 FIlloux, 293 and 270 mortars.
-74e RALGP: ALVF guns "matériels tous azimuths".
-75e RALGP: ALVF guns.
-76e RALGP: ALVF guns.
-77e RALGP: ALVF guns.
-78e RALGP: ALVF guns.

In 1918, 240 TR modèle 1903 and 293 mortars are classed "ALGP" guns but in 1940, the 293 mortars are classed "ALVF" guns (240 TR no more in service).
Some "small" caliber guns on railway mounting are not classed ALGP guns: 120 L and 155 C guns on Peigné-canet mount (0,60 m gauge) and 155 L "Transvaal" (normal gauge).
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Two images from Ebay:

Image 1: I think 320mm Mle 1870-93 (or 70-30)
Image 2: 274mm Mle 1917 barrel

Sturm78