french railway gun

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Can somebody identify these gun barrels ?

Image from Alamy webpage
Sturm78

[ROLAND1369]

My best guess would be 340 MM M 1912 barrels.

[ALVF]

Hello,

These barrels are two 380 mm modèle 1935 C/1936 on "Fonderie Nationale de Ruelle" special transport railway carriages, the guns are new built and send to Saint-Nazaire for the battleship in building "Jean Bart". The battleship escaped Saint-Nazaire the 20th june 1940 for Casablanca with only four 380 mm guns on board, one other gun was destroyed on a quay of Saint-Nazaire, one was loaded in a merchant vessel which was bombed and sank in the Gironde, two other guns (the photograph!) were taken on their railway carriages "en route" for Saint-Nazaire near Ruelle.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[Sturm78]

Thanks a lot for your help, Guy...

Regards
Sturm78

[schwarzermai]

Hello, from ebay: 52 cm Haubitze (E) 871 (f)

Uwe

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

It is difficult to ensure but I would say an 320mm Mle 1870-84 (or Mle 70-30)

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Manuferey]

A 305 mm Mle 1893-96 railway gun in Antwerp, Belgium, sometimes after the liberation of the city in 1944. It looks like the front bogie is missing.
According to Greg's German list here viewtopic.php?p=2166531#p2166531, the Germans captured two of these guns in 1940. But I am not aware of the Germans having reused this type of railway gun. Why would have they moved one of them in Antwerp then?

Also, on the right of the picture, there is some kind of carriage that resembles the one of an ex-Belgian 28 cm kurze Bruno (or similar). But I'm not sure.

Source: the 12th armored division memorial museum
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531 ... rman%20gun

AntwerpGermangun.jpg

Emmanuel

[schwarzermai]

Hello Emmanuel, i didnt found any use of Mle. 93-96 (Beutenumber 636), also for Mle. 06-10 (Beutenumber 637) - but i found in the List of Beutegeschütze from Nov'1944 one exemplar of 637, so i think 2 x 637 were captured ...both looks (for me) identical.
Is this possible?
Uwe

[Manuferey]

Uwe,

This 305 mm Mle 1893-96 gun has a "à berceau" carriage i.e. a "Wiegenlafette" while the 305 mm Mle 1906-10 gun has a "à glissement" carriage i.e. a "Gleitlafette".

Two 30,5 cm KE 637(f) (305 mm Mle 1906-10) were indeed in German inventory in May 1944 according to the list posted by Jos here:
viewtopic.php?p=2050596#p2050596
However, there seems to be a German typo since the Beutenummer is written as K(E) 637(r) instead of (f).

Emmanuel

[schwarzermai]

Hello Emmanuel, "Kennblätter fremden Geräts" says, that 636 and 637 have both "Gleitlafette" - failure in the "Kennblätter"?

also: the linked document says "2 carriages for 637" - not complete guns for possible scrapping ...

but note, that the technique itself is not my maintheme ...

Uwe

[EPOCH3]

Hi - I believe what the photo shows is a 305 Mle 93 sur affût-truc à berceau L/45.
The Kennblätter Fremden Geräts D50/6 reference description is 30,5cm K - W - (E) 630/2 (f).
I "think" I remember having also seen another photo of this gun from another angle - it was sitting on the ground (no trucks).

Btw: 630/1 is the L/40 configuration of the same gun.
Regards

[Manuferey]

Thanks Greg.

As with many French railway guns, it is never simple, right? In "Les Canons de la Victoire" Tome 2 (page 42), General Guy François (aka ALVF) mentioned that the L/40 barrels of the 305 mm Mle 1893-96 railway guns were worn out during WW1 and replaced with L/45 305 mm Mle 1893 barrels for 2 off them and with a L/40 305 mm Mle 1893 for the third gun.

Therefore, the picture in Antwerp indeed shows a 305 mm Mle 1893. I'm curious how we can differentiate the 2 types of barrels, L/40 and L45 without seen them next to each other to compare the length.

If the 30,5 cm K(E) 637(f) is the Beutenummer for the 305 mm Mle 1906-10, could the 636(f) be the Beutenummer for the Mle 1906 since both Mle 1906 and Mle 1906-10 existed post-WW1 (cf. page 62 of "Les Canons de la Victoire" Tome 2)?

I've found pictures of the gun with a similar carriage sitting on the ground. But it is a 370 mm Mle 1915. Interestingly there are German markings visible on the top picture: "Deutsche Reichsbahn” and "Sondertransport".

370M1915notruck.jpg

Emmanuel

[ALVF]

Helllo,

For the guns on the Batignolles mounts:

-370 modèle 1915: 8 railway guns from the guns of the battleships "Carnot" and "Charles Martel" and the armored coast defence ships "Bouvines" and "Amiral Tréhouart", the 305 mm modèle 1887 are shortened and rebored to 370 mm modèle 1915.

-305 Berceau on Batignolles Mounts: 3 railway guns:
...first 3 guns mounted 305 mm modèle 1893-96 from the battleship "Iéna", destroyed by explosion and fire on a Toulon Dock before the war. 3 guns (on 4 of the battleship) salvaged intact on the wreck and kept in Arsenal of Toulon until 1914.
...the 3 used and worn guns were replaced by:
.....2 guns from battleship "Massena": 305 mm modèle 1893 L/45.
.....1 gun from "Gaulois", "Charlemagne" or "Saint-Louis" battleship class (or gun in reserve): 305 mm modèle 1893 L/40.

The guns from "Règlement de manoeuvre de l'Artillerie-Titre V8-Description et entretien des Matériels et des Munitions de 305 mle 93 et 370 mle 1915"-édition 1923:

305 B-370 B.jpg

Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

[EPOCH3]

Kennblätter Fremden Geräts D50/6 (1.2.1941) indicates 636 (f) is 305 sur affût-truc Mle 93/96

[ALVF]

Hello,

In the Fremden Geräts dated 01-03-1944, you can read:

Fr.Ger 01-3-1944.jpg

630/1 (f) is the 305 mm modèle 1893 L/40 on Batignolles mount (1 in storage in Neuvy-Pailloux in 1940)..
630/2 (f) is the 305 mm modèle 1893 L/45 on Batignolles mount (2 in storage in Neuvy-Pailloux in 1940)..
636 (f) is the 305 mm modèle 1893-96 on affût à glissement Schneider (only 2 were used for training in 1939 in french Army).
637 (f) is the 305 mm modèle 1906-10 on affût à glissement Schneider (3 used in french Army in 1940).

Nota: no mention in this text of the 305 mm modèle 1906 on affût à glissement Schneider (3 used by french Army in 1940), these guns are very similar of the modèle 1906-10 and difficult to distinguish with the 06-10 model.
305 modèle 1906 were the guns of the battleships of "Danton" class.
305 modèle 1906-10 were the guns of the battleships of "Jean Bart" class.
These 6 guns on railway carriages (modèle 1906 and modèle 1906-10) were taken from the reserve tubes of the battleships and their mounting were finished in november 1918 and january 1919, to late for the Great War.
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.