Unknow gun

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jopaerya
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by jopaerya » 23 Nov 2008 18:07

Hello Sturm78

The gun is a 105 mm Erdhardt SF , ex W.W.I German gun used by the French as coast guns .
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_41-45_skc06.htm

Regards Jos

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Manuferey » 24 Nov 2008 00:15

It looks like one German soldier is inspecting the gun while 2 French sailors are watching. Maybe somewhere along the French Mediterranean coast after the invasion of the "Free" zone?

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Sturm78 » 06 Dec 2008 22:39

Hi all,

Can somebody Id this naval gun in german service?

Regards Stutm78.
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dvzhuk
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by dvzhuk » 07 Dec 2008 12:21

Hello Sturm78
Sturm78 wrote:Can somebody Id this naval gun in german service?
If I'm not mistaken, this photo was taken in Denmark and the ship in foreground is a Dragen-Class torpedoboat. Hence the gun is 7.5cm L/40 Bofors M1928. According to the ordnance tables from the Brassey's Naval Annual, its particulars are:
Weight of gun ............ 430 kg
Weight of projectile ............ 6,5 kg
Muzzle velocity ............ 600 m/s
Max. range ............ 11800 m
Rounds per minute ............ 30
Weight of gun, mounting, and shield ............ 1410 kg
Weight of shield ............ 240 kg
Angle of elevation ............ 40°
Angle of depression ............ 10°

Regards, Denis

s.pak
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by s.pak » 07 Dec 2008 16:59

anyone has an idea for this gun assembled on a small German boat.

Image

regards patrick

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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Sturm78 » 07 Dec 2008 18:26

Hi Denis,

Are you sure that it`s a 75mm Bofors M1928 naval gun?

See http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSweden_3-60_m1928.htm

According to this link, this weapon was used in swedish Fylgia and Gotland Classes and the weapon was L50 or L60??, no L40. Unfortunately there are no photos of this weapon on this page.

The danish Dragen class (TFA3-4-5 in german service) was armed with 2X 75mm guns and Glenten class with 2X 87mm guns (maker and model unknow for me :( ). The pictures are not very good, but I would say that the gun of my picture resembles more those in the class Glenten.

http://www.navalhistory.dk/english/thes ... (1930).htm
http://www.navalhistory.dk/english/thes ... (1933).htm

What is your opinion?

Regards Sturm78.
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dvzhuk
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by dvzhuk » 07 Dec 2008 18:58

Hello Sturm78
Sturm78 wrote:Are you sure that it`s a 75mm Bofors M1928 naval gun?

See http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSweden_3-60_m1928.htm

According to this link, this weapon was used in swedish Fylgia and Gotland Classes and the weapon was L50 or L60??, no L40. Unfortunately there are no photos of this weapon on this page.
My source was the Weyers Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten 1941/42. At page 60 in ships' data for Glenten-class there are 2-8,7cm l/50, for Dragen-class — 2-7,5 l/40. Following page 424, with ships' artillery data, we obtain that these 8,7cm l/50 are Bofors guns, M1932.
The pictures are not very good, but I would say that the gun of my picture resembles more those in the class Glenten.
Probably you are right — having no better quality images, it is hard to say anything definitive.

Regards, Denis

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Manuferey » 07 Dec 2008 22:19

Here is another picture (expired ebay.de) of the 75 mm Bofors M-1928 in service with the Kriegsmarine. The sailors give an idea of the scale and thus, the length of the barrel. L/60 would mean a tube length of 4.5 m while L/40 would be 3 m. The tube length on the picture looks to me closer to 3 m than 4.5 m. This would indicate L/40.

On the background of the picture, one can see a large U-bunker.

Image

Emmanuel

dvzhuk
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by dvzhuk » 07 Dec 2008 23:19

Hello Emmanuel
Manuferey wrote:Here is another picture (expired ebay.de) of the 75 mm Bofors M-1928 in service with the Kriegsmarine. The sailors give an idea of the scale and thus, the length of the barrel. L/60 would mean a tube length of 4.5 m while L/40 would be 3 m. The tube length on the picture looks to me closer to 3 m than 4.5 m. This would indicate L/40.
Thank you! This gun and its mounting on the deck looks quite similar to one, posted by Sturm78.

Regarding discussed various barrel lengths — in the Brassey's Annual there are all three in the ordnance tables: 75 mm L/40, L/49 and L/60.

Regards, Denis

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nuyt
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by nuyt » 07 Dec 2008 23:51

Dear Denis,

I have never come across both Brassey's and Weyers.
Does any of these publications mention details of the Turkish 75mm submarine guns on the Birinci Inonu class?

TIA.
Kind regards,
Nuyt

dvzhuk
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by dvzhuk » 08 Dec 2008 19:27

Hello Nuyt
nuyt wrote:Does any of these publications mention details of the Turkish 75mm submarine guns on the Birinci Inonu class?
Unfortunately, there are no details, so I can only speculate a little on this topic.

In late 1930s reference books one 7,5cm AA gun is mentioned as a main artillery for these subs. In both Weyers and Brassey's there is nothing on its length. Neither it is in Russian Schwede's «Voennye floty» (1940). «Conway's All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1922-1946» provides us with nought. It is interesting that the page on Dutch Export Submarines gives 3-inch gun instead of 7,5cm though.

What can we deduce? Let suppose, that the boat was armed with a gun, familiar to Dutch Navy and shipbuilders.
From Weyers, there were following 7.5 cm guns in Dutch service that time:
Bofors 7,5cm L/60 AA M1918,
Krupp 7,5cm L/55 M1908,
Krupp 7,5cm L/40 of unknown year.

In Brassey's there are three models of 7,5cm L/55 in the “Netherlands Naval Ordnance” table:
Bofors 7,5cm L/55 AA,
Holl.Ind.Handel Mij. 7,5cm L/55 AA,
Krupp 7,5cm L/55 AA.

It is possible also that the guns were purchased at Bofors, and were of another model. If so, we should take more guns into consideration.
From Weyers:
7,5 cm L/60 AA M1926,
7,5cm L/50 AA M1924. The latter one was installed in submarines.

From Brassey's:
7,5cm L/40,
7,5cm L/49 AA (probably, the same as L/50),
7,5cm L/60 AA.

If we look at the photo from dutchsubmarines.com, what can we say?
Image
The barrel length seems to be around 50 calibres. Thus we can reduce our list to 2 lengths: L/50 and L/55. Most probable gun design in this range is Bofors, I think. For exact answer photos or drawings of these guns are necessary.

Regards, Denis

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nuyt
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by nuyt » 08 Dec 2008 19:46

Thanks Denis!

On this thread on HIH and HIH Siderius you can find some more pics of this gun, which according to Turkish publications is indeed 75mm and should be still at Golcuk Naval Armament Museum in Turkey.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... +1923-1934
Here is the best picture below:

I would like to ask you another favour, this time on the 7,5cm and 15 cm HIH, Hollandsche Industrie en handelmaatschappij, guns for the Chinese Navy. These were delivered in the early 30s. Do your books mention these?

Kind regards,
Nuyt
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jopaerya
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by jopaerya » 08 Dec 2008 22:32

Hello Patrick

Your gun is a 65 or 57 mm Cockerill gun. The guns are similar, but for the calibre.
A lot of these were bought by the Norwegians in the 1896 - 1904 timeframe - some
of them ended up on Vorpostenboote.

Information = Jan Egil Fjortoft

Regards Jos

P.S. also have a new one from Ebay.usa
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s.pak
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by s.pak » 09 Dec 2008 17:53

thanks jos, but are you sure ?

because my gun is not the same regarding this photo of 57mm cockerill find on the web.

Image

have you one other source ? (photo)

regards patrick

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Erik E
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Erik E » 09 Dec 2008 19:24

Hallo Patrick

I agree with Jos, based on the drawing from "Norwegian artilley in Atlantikwall" it surely looks like a 65mm Cockerill:
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