Unknow gun

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2221

Post by VRIL7 » 21 Mar 2021, 17:56

shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
Hi VRIL7, the carriage of 149/40 is much longer than that of your photo. If you compare the diameter of the wheels and the length of the tails you will see that the tails of the 149/40 are much longer.
Let's be guided by the facts: here in the photo you can see that the tails are the same, with five holes:
Prototype OTO de 149-19, prototype 210-21-3.jpg

And here the howitzers aiming flywheels have the same diameter:
Prototype OTO de 149-19, prototype 210-21-2.jpg
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
And compare the size of the barrel with the man in the photograph .... it's too small to be a 210/22.
Perhaps a scaled barrel was produced, for a smaller caliber - 149 mm. Are you sure this photo is not Photoshop? It looks suspicious. Most likely - photoshop.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
P.S. , the original caption of the photo of the barrel on the "FondazioneAnsaldo" site says "149/40 gun" but it is a mistake, compare the breechblock with that of the 149/40 .... of the series specimens where the breechblock opens towards right (in the prototypes it opened upwards).
In prototypes of 210 mm howitzers, the breechblock opened to the side.
Regards
Andriy

grassi
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Re: Unknow gun

#2222

Post by grassi » 21 Mar 2021, 18:21

This might be offtopic, but which type of gun is resembled by this memorial near Stettin?

Thank you very much!

Best regards

grassi
2019 Kopie.jpg
2019 Kopie.jpg (50.45 KiB) Viewed 1202 times


shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

#2223

Post by shultz » 21 Mar 2021, 20:36

VRIL7 wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:56
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
Hi VRIL7, the carriage of 149/40 is much longer than that of your photo. If you compare the diameter of the wheels and the length of the tails you will see that the tails of the 149/40 are much longer.
Let's be guided by the facts: here in the photo you can see that the tails are the same, with five holes:
Prototype OTO de 149-19, prototype 210-21-3.jpg


And here the howitzers aiming flywheels have the same diameter:
Prototype OTO de 149-19, prototype 210-21-2.jpg
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
And compare the size of the barrel with the man in the photograph .... it's too small to be a 210/22.
Perhaps a scaled barrel was produced, for a smaller caliber - 149 mm. Are you sure this photo is not Photoshop? It looks suspicious. Most likely - photoshop.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 17:02
P.S. , the original caption of the photo of the barrel on the "FondazioneAnsaldo" site says "149/40 gun" but it is a mistake, compare the breechblock with that of the 149/40 .... of the series specimens where the breechblock opens towards right (in the prototypes it opened upwards).
In prototypes of 210 mm howitzers, the breechblock opened to the side.
Hi VRIL7 , the photo on your first comparation are not to the same scale !!!
Catturad.JPG
(barrel lenght in calibers in italian guns is measured from the face of the breech)

and in your second comparation you put together an OTO and an Ansaldo.....

and here the sheet Fondazione Ansaldo : no photoshop
scheda 028388 FondazioneAnsaldo.it.JPG
Regards, Shultz

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Grzesio
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Re: Unknow gun

#2224

Post by Grzesio » 22 Mar 2021, 20:29

grassi wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 18:21
This might be offtopic, but which type of gun is resembled by this memorial near Stettin?
"Resembled" is a good word. ;)
I think, a Soviet 76,2 mm divisional gun mod. 1942 (ZiS-3) is the closest match for the model on top (although a short barrel may resemble a152 mm howitzer mod. 1943 (D-1), but not the shield), then a 122 howitzer mod. 1937 (M-30) is depicted in the plate below.
Last edited by Grzesio on 23 Mar 2021, 11:39, edited 1 time in total.

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2225

Post by VRIL7 » 22 Mar 2021, 21:26

Hi Schultz,
You know that Ansaldo, since 1929, has been developing another 210-mm howitzer with a barrel length of 16.5 calibers, on a two-wheeled carriage. I think that this photo viewtopic.php?p=2331815#p2331815 is exactly the finalized project of this howitzer, presented in 1934. And then, based on the gun carriage of this howitzer, a prototype 149/40 gun of 1935 was built.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 20:36
Hi VRIL7 , the photo on your first comparation are not to the same scale !!!
I know I’m not on the same scale. Just with this image, I wanted to show that the carriages have the same frame. On the 149/40 cannon, the frame seems to be longer due to the fact that they are photographed from different angles.
Now look from a different angle. I took these photographs of almost the same scale. The reference point at the howitzer is the far wheel, since it is approximately at the same distance from the edge of the photo:
da 149L40 and prototipo 210mm-2.jpg
As you can see, the length of the gun carriages is almost the same.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 20:36
and in your second comparation you put together an OTO and an Ansaldo.....
Yes I know. I did it on purpose so that you can see the difference in size between these prototypes. I indicated there a reference point for the scale - the vertical pick-up flywheels. They must be the same size on different implements. But you did not understand this:
Prototype OTO da 149-19, prototipo da 210-16,5-2.jpg
Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

#2226

Post by shultz » 22 Mar 2021, 22:41

VRIL7 wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 21:26
Hi Schultz,
You know that Ansaldo, since 1929, has been developing another 210-mm howitzer with a barrel length of 16.5 calibers, on a two-wheeled carriage. I think that this photo viewtopic.php?p=2331815#p2331815 is exactly the finalized project of this howitzer, presented in 1934. And then, based on the gun carriage of this howitzer, a prototype 149/40 gun of 1935 was built.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 20:36
Hi VRIL7 , the photo on your first comparation are not to the same scale !!!
I know I’m not on the same scale. Just with this image, I wanted to show that the carriages have the same frame. On the 149/40 cannon, the frame seems to be longer due to the fact that they are photographed from different angles.
Now look from a different angle. I took these photographs of almost the same scale. The reference point at the howitzer is the far wheel, since it is approximately at the same distance from the edge of the photo:
da 149L40 and prototipo 210mm-2.jpg
As you can see, the length of the gun carriages is almost the same.
shultz wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 20:36
and in your second comparation you put together an OTO and an Ansaldo.....
Yes I know. I did it on purpose so that you can see the difference in size between these prototypes. I indicated there a reference point for the scale - the vertical pick-up flywheels. They must be the same size on different implements. But you did not understand this:
Prototype OTO da 149-19, prototipo da 210-16,5-2.jpg
Hi VRIL7 ,
here the drawing of the prototype of Ansaldo 210/18 from an article by Bruno Benvenuti and Andrea Curami in the magazine "Storia Militare n.17"
Storia Militare n.17 pag.54.JPG
and the same drawing from an article by Nicola Pignato and Filippo Cappellano in the magazine "Storia Militare n.171"
Storia Militare n.171 pag.5.JPG
Storia Militare n.171 pag.5.JPG (22.98 KiB) Viewed 1093 times
and finally the photo of the prototype 149/21 Ansaldo from an article by Nicola Pignato in the magazine "Storia Militare n.150"; article dedicated to the development of 149/19
Storia Militare n.150 pag.22.JPG
Storia Militare n.150 pag.22.JPG (39.39 KiB) Viewed 1093 times
Nicola Pignato and Filippo Cappellano are the greatest Italian artillery experts, Bruno Benvenuti and Andrea Curami are two very important historians, expert scholars of the Italian arms manufacturing companies.

Regards, Shultz

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2227

Post by VRIL7 » 23 Mar 2021, 21:45

Hi Schultz,
shultz wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 22:41
Hi VRIL7 ,
here the drawing of the prototype of Ansaldo 210/18 from an article by Bruno Benvenuti and Andrea Curami in the magazine "Storia Militare n.17"
Storia Militare n.17 pag.54.JPG
Was this project built?
shultz wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 22:41
and finally the photo of the prototype 149/21 Ansaldo from an article by Nicola Pignato in the magazine "Storia Militare n.150"; article dedicated to the development of 149/19
Thanks for this image, I have not seen this yet. Now it really confirms that it is a 149mm howitzer. It's just that there was nothing to compare the previous photos with. This means that the design of the carriage and wheels was identical to the design of the prototype 149/40 cannon, just reduced in size. If the length of the barrel of the Ansaldo howitzer was 21 caliber, then the firing range should also be greater than that of the OTO howitzer. Do you have any data on the range of the Ansaldo prototype? And also why was it not adopted by the Italian army?
Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

#2228

Post by shultz » 24 Mar 2021, 15:36

shultz wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 22:41
Hi VRIL7 ,
here the drawing of the prototype of Ansaldo 210/18 from an article by Bruno Benvenuti and Andrea Curami in the magazine "Storia Militare n.17"
Storia Militare n.17 pag.54.JPG
Was this project built?
shultz wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 22:41
and finally the photo of the prototype 149/21 Ansaldo from an article by Nicola Pignato in the magazine "Storia Militare n.150"; article dedicated to the development of 149/19
Thanks for this image
Do you have any data on the range of the Ansaldo prototype? And also why was it not adopted by the Italian army?
[/quote]

Hi VRIL7
no, I think the 210/18 remained at the initial project stage.
I have never seen other drawings or photographs and even on the "Fondazione Ansaldo" site I have not found anything.

Here a better scan
149-21 Ans newscan.JPG
(with my mobile phone the photo is worse)
IMG_20210324_094108_1b.jpg
the evaluation of the 149/19 prototypes lasted about 6 years with continuous modifications and improvements, and therefore I hope they have chosen the one with the best features.
Regards, Shultz

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peeved
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Re: Unknow gun

#2229

Post by peeved » 24 Mar 2021, 18:52

149/21 photo from an expired auction of ebay seller hagridmerlinodue:
Image

Markus

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2230

Post by VRIL7 » 24 Mar 2021, 21:38

shultz wrote:
24 Mar 2021, 15:36
Here a better scan 149-21
peeved wrote:
24 Mar 2021, 18:52
149/21 photo from an expired auction of ebay seller hagridmerlinodue:
Many thanks to Schultz and Markus. :thumbsup:

Schultz, does the book mention the firing distance of the Ansaldo 149/21 prototype? I think it should be larger than the OTO howitzer prototype.
Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

#2231

Post by shultz » 24 Mar 2021, 23:00

Schultz, does the book mention the firing distance of the Ansaldo 149/21 prototype? I think it should be larger than the OTO howitzer prototype.
[/quote]

Hi, the characteristics of the new weapons were considered secret in Italy in the 1930s, and therefore today we generally know only those of the "adopted" materials, through military manuals.
However, in the article by Nicola Pignato on the howitzer from 149/19 these data are reported:
caratteristiche 149-21 Ansaldo e 149-19 OTO Mod. 37.JPG
therefore the Ansaldo howitzer was lighter, but had a slightly lower range than the OTO howitzer.
Regards, Shultz

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2232

Post by VRIL7 » 25 Mar 2021, 20:40

shultz wrote:
24 Mar 2021, 23:00
However, in the article by Nicola Pignato on the howitzer from 149/19 these data are reported:caratteristiche 149-21 Ansaldo e 149-19 OTO Mod.
Thank you Schultz for the interesting information.
It is strange that with a longer barrel, the Ansaldo howitzer had a shorter firing range. There is nothing written about it.
Regards
Andriy

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2233

Post by VRIL7 » 29 Mar 2021, 16:12

Hello everybody,
Please identify this anti-aircraft machine gun:
Anti-aircraft machine gun of the World war II..jpg
Regards
Andriy

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peeved
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Re: Unknow gun

#2234

Post by peeved » 29 Mar 2021, 16:32

Post-War Czech 57 mm; vz.7S or so.

Markus

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

#2235

Post by VRIL7 » 29 Mar 2021, 17:05

peeved wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 16:32
Post-War Czech 57 mm; vz.7S or so.
Thanks Marcus for the tip.
I have already found it: it is indeed a Czech 57-mm anti-aircraft gun vz.7S, 1956.
Regards
Andriy

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