Unknow gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
karlik
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by karlik » 26 May 2021 14:06

VRIL7 wrote:
26 May 2021 11:19
I came across an image of a French 105mm cannon with an extremely long barrel.
Hi!
Stephane Ferrard "France 1940 L armement terrestre" p.202
"Prototype de 105 mm long de Tarbes (ATS) d une portee 22500 metres"

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 26 May 2021 14:41

karlik wrote:
26 May 2021 14:06
Hi!
Stephane Ferrard "France 1940 L armement terrestre" p.202
"Prototype de 105 mm long de Tarbes (ATS) d une portee 22500 metres"
Thanks karlik,
Unfortunately, I do not have this book.
Could you throw off a scan with a picture and description of this gun. I would really appreciate it.
I wonder why such a progressive gun was not adopted?
Regards
Andriy

karlik
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by karlik » 26 May 2021 14:53

VRIL7 wrote:
26 May 2021 14:41
Could you throw off a scan with a picture and description of this gun. I would really appreciate it.
I only have a camera, if this quality suits you, then I can take a picture of the pages.

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 26 May 2021 15:11

karlik wrote:
26 May 2021 14:53
I only have a camera, if this quality suits you, then I can take a picture of the pages.
Okay, so be it.
Regards
Andriy

karlik
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by karlik » 26 May 2021 15:57

Sorry for quality.
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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 26 May 2021 16:08

Thank you very much Karlik! :thumbsup:
Today I'm going to translate.
It is a pity that part of the text is not visible in the second photo.
Regards
Andriy

karlik
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by karlik » 26 May 2021 16:14

VRIL7 wrote:
26 May 2021 16:08
It is a pity that part of the text is not visible in the second photo.
"En mai 1940, outre les regiments d artillerie de corps d armee, des grouppes de 105 mm long modele 1936 equiperont l artillerie des DLM et DLC pour l action lointaine."

Unfortunately, there is almost nothing about the long-barreled gun.
Best regards!

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 26 May 2021 16:19

Thanks Karlik!
Regards
Andriy

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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 26 May 2021 21:22

karlik wrote:
26 May 2021 16:14
Unfortunately, there is almost nothing about the long-barreled gun.
Perhaps in the book "Les matériels de l'Armée de terre française 1940" there is more information about this mysterious cannon?
s-l1600.jpg
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Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by shultz » 27 May 2021 22:00

VRIL7 wrote:
16 May 2021 15:59

Are there photographs of experimental carts, with the installation of pneumatic tires from the Second World War or the late 30s in Italy?
Thanks in advance.
Hi, the photographs of the artillery tests with tires are very rare, these are the only ones I have found so far:
this is taken from a book by Nino Arena,
105-28 with pneumatic tires.jpg


and these from a book by Nicola Pignato and Filippo Cappellano.
105-28 with tires on tow.jpg
Then on the internet there are photographs of prototypes of the 37/54 Breda on field carriages with tires, but they date back to 1942/43 (that photo are taken from the book "Alle origini della Breda Meccanica Bresciana").

Regards, Shultz.
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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 28 May 2021 07:47

shultz wrote:
27 May 2021 22:00
Hi, the photographs of the artillery tests with tires are very rare, these are the only ones I have found so far:
this is taken from a book by Nino Arena,
Hello,
Thank you very much for these interesting photos. :milsmile: Looks like this gun was fitted with French Michelin tires?
I wonder why only the old guns of the First World War period were tried with tires? Was there really no attempt to fit pneumatic wheels on more modern implements (with the exception of the 37/54 Breda)? Thanks.
Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by shultz » 28 May 2021 14:16

VRIL7 wrote:
28 May 2021 07:47
Thank you very much for these interesting photos. :milsmile: Looks like this gun was fitted with French Michelin tires?
I wonder why only the old guns of the First World War period were tried with tires? Was there really no attempt to fit pneumatic wheels on more modern implements (with the exception of the 37/54 Breda)? Thanks.
Hi,
the tires in the photos are italian Pirelli brand, "artiglio(claw)" model.
The Italian Army before the war had transformed many of the light artillery by removing the wooden wheels and adding metal wheels with "semi-pneumatic", which allowed a greater speed of towing.
Semi-pneumatic tires can be recognized by normal rubber rings because they have side holes that communicate with empty chambers inside the rubber rim.
I put as an example some photos taken from the INTERNET.
75-18-35 with ''semi-pneumatic'' metal wheels.jpg
75-27-906 with ''semi-pneumatic'' metal wheels.jpg
75-46 with ''semi-pneumatic'' metal wheels - Tobruk.jpg
100-17-14 with ''semi-pneumatic'' elektron alloy wheels.jpg
105-28 with ''semi-pneumatic'' elektron alloy wheels.jpg
Regards, Shultz
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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 28 May 2021 21:15

shultz wrote:
28 May 2021 14:16
Hi,
the tires in the photos are italian Pirelli brand, "artiglio(claw)" model.
The Italian Army before the war had transformed many of the light artillery by removing the wooden wheels and adding metal wheels with "semi-pneumatic", which allowed a greater speed of towing.
Semi-pneumatic tires can be recognized by normal rubber rings because they have side holes that communicate with empty chambers inside the rubber rim.
Hello,
I didn't mean semi-pneumatic tires, but pneumatic ones. Look at the picture, they are identical to Michelin tires, and in the bottom picture, even the rims are the same:
105L28 with pneumatic tires-Latil KTL 4.jpg

The "artiglio" tires had a different pattern:
pneu Artiglio.jpg

Most likely, the Italians tested the French modernized cannons... :milwink:
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Regards
Andriy

shultz
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by shultz » 29 May 2021 19:57

VRIL7 wrote:
28 May 2021 21:15
shultz wrote:
28 May 2021 14:16
Hi,
the tires in the photos are italian Pirelli brand, "artiglio(claw)" model.
The Italian Army before the war had transformed many of the light artillery by removing the wooden wheels and adding metal wheels with "semi-pneumatic", which allowed a greater speed of towing.
Semi-pneumatic tires can be recognized by normal rubber rings because they have side holes that communicate with empty chambers inside the rubber rim.
Hello,
I didn't mean semi-pneumatic tires, but pneumatic ones. Look at the picture, they are identical to Michelin tires, and in the bottom picture, even the rims are the same:
105L28 with pneumatic tires-Latil KTL 4.jpg


The "artiglio" tires had a different pattern:
pneu Artiglio.jpg


Most likely, the Italians tested the French modernized cannons... :milwink:
Hi VRIL7,
I did a little research: in the early 1930s the French company Michelin had a branch in Italy in Milan. But in 1938 at the time of the photographed tests, relations between Italy and France were very bad because of the war in Ethiopia and the war in Spain; and Italy was under embargo by the League of Nations (the so-called "economic sanctions").

So I exclude that France sold tires for military use to Italy.

The tests photographed in 1938 were made to establish which was the best tire for the sand of the Libyan desert, and the same tires as the tractor were mounted on the 105/28 (I add another photo of the tests where they are better seen).
1938, prove con pneumatici.jpg
The "artiglio" type dug too much sand, and in the end the final type chosen was almost smooth; I'll put you two photos of this too, which was only mounted on tractors.
trattore con gomme definitive.jpg
Sicilia 1943 - trattore con gomme per sabbia.jpg
All the photos are from a book of N. Pignato and F. Cappellano.

Regards, Shultz
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VRIL7
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by VRIL7 » 29 May 2021 22:00

shultz wrote:
29 May 2021 19:57

The tests photographed in 1938 were made to establish which was the best tire for the sand of the Libyan desert, and the same tires as the tractor were mounted on the 105/28.
Hello,
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you - the tires on the tractor and on the gun are different (see photo).
Malgré l'utilisation de pneus Artiglio, le tracteur s'enfonçait encore nettement dans le sable comme le montrèrent les essais de halage du canon de 105L28 en mai 1938.jpg

I also have pictures from this test, and it says that pneumatic tires "artiglio" were used only on the tractor, and the gun used semi-pneumatics "Celerflex" (Pirelli) and pneumatic tires, which I think are from the Michelin brand. Such tires were installed on French vehicles already in 1935. So it is quite possible that Italy bought them before the deterioration of relations with France.
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Regards
Andriy

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