wooden box on bunker

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jopaerya
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wooden box on bunker

#1

Post by jopaerya » 28 Nov 2006, 22:09

Hello All

Who has any clue , what this wooden box or
it's purpose is on top of the bunker ?????
Is't possible for a later placing of a turret ???

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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bunker uitzoeken 2.JPG
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PJF
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#2

Post by PJF » 28 Nov 2006, 22:59

it's a form for the pouring of concrete...from photo details it's clear that the bunker is under construction.


jopaerya
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#3

Post by jopaerya » 29 Nov 2006, 09:34

Hello PJF

Normally the bunker was poured with concrete and all armoured
parts were allready in place and then when the concrete was hard
enough the wooden planking were removed , but here it looks that
the a place of the bunker was later poured with concrete for example
for a armoured turret.

Regards Jos

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SES
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#4

Post by SES » 29 Nov 2006, 10:31

Hi,
Just a thought. At Flg.Hrst. Grove we have several St. bunkers with a FA weaponssite on top constructed purely by earth. Your "box" could look like the poles and logs sometimes used in FA constructions, before they are covered with earth.
bregds
SES

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P. Heijkoop
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#5

Post by P. Heijkoop » 29 Nov 2006, 11:07

Jos and others,

Indeed, preferable a turret was built in directly, however the nachträgliche Einbau
for turrets was done often. Perhaps because it was easier to do (because the turret could be placed on an already poured concrete base, instead of building a stutt to support the entire weight from the start) with the limited building equipment. The picture reminds me of a nachträglicher einbau of a weapons or observation turret.

Peter

jopaerya
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#6

Post by jopaerya » 29 Nov 2006, 11:11

Hello Ses

Thanks for your thought , it could be the solution .
My first thought were the placing of a turret on a
allready build bunker , but I think we will never now .

Regards Jos
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SES
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#7

Post by SES » 29 Nov 2006, 11:28

Hi Jos,
You could easily be right. I have seen Tobruks, which have been added to St bunkers after they were was completed.
bregds
SES

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#8

Post by jopaerya » 29 Nov 2006, 11:31

Thanks Peter and Ses

For your answers .

Regards Jos

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M19 MADMAL
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#9

Post by M19 MADMAL » 01 Dec 2006, 17:46

Hi Jos,
Is it possible that the turret has been covered in wood to protect it while the concrete was poured around it?
Or prehaps to protect the loop holes if a concrete camoflage is being added to the turret roof judging by the people doing something on it :?
The "Nachträglich einbau" was the way all of the 20p7 turrets were installed in Jersey, also the 434po1 M19 turret at Stp Corbiere was installed after the construction of the bunker.
Regards, Malcolm. :wink:

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Andy H
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#10

Post by Andy H » 03 Dec 2006, 08:02

I would say it was wooden shuttering, for concrete pouring.

Looking at the trolley rails in the foreground, they go off into the distance bearing left Then if you look at the guy standing to the far left of the shuttering, it seems that his feet are intersected by the trolley rails, heading towards the shuttering.

Regards

Andy H

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#11

Post by 20P7 » 08 Jun 2007, 16:18

Hello members,

just to answer your questions:

It is a Regelbau R 120 / 121 with a concrete observation turret on top. The picture was taken while the concrete of the turret was not hardened. So the wooden material is still in place. Using concrete turrets instead the real iron pieces was a way to bring the bunker into use provisorically, when the production lines in the factories weren' t able to deliver as much turrets as needed. This way to handle the shortage of equipment is known from the Westwall. There is still one ruin of a R 121 with the rest of such a concrete (60 cm thick) turret on top of it.

Daniel

jopaerya
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#12

Post by jopaerya » 06 Dec 2007, 16:00

Hello All

Here a nice example of nachträgliche Einbau , a 502 near Brest .

Photo = Forummember Jibi from Le Havre

Regards Jos
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jibi 502.JPG
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Jibi   502 turm.JPG
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#13

Post by 20P7 » 06 Dec 2007, 22:22

Hello Jos,

this is a very interesting photo for me. I have never seen before such a preparation for the placing of a turret! Along the Westwall you can find just square holes in the concrete roof minimum 2 x 2 m, where such infantery observation turrets were planned to be placed. Do you know more such solutions?

Here are two pictures of a preparated turretshaft for a 20P7 of a R 113b. In this case the bolts were allready integrated.

Greetings

Daniel
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R 113b 1.jpg
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R 113b 2.jpg
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jopaerya
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#14

Post by jopaerya » 06 Dec 2007, 22:56

Hi Daniel

There are drawings for the nachträgliche Einbau for all types of turrets,
schartenplatte's , doors , peroscopeholes and other armed parts .
http://www.atlantik.nl/ PDF Files

Regards Jos

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#15

Post by 20P7 » 07 Dec 2007, 00:11

Hello Jos,

thanks for this information. I got those technical manuals allready. I'm interested in information where the "TM" were used in reality.

Greetings

Daniel

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